Posted on 10/25/2010 9:27:38 AM PDT by GonzoII
Jn 3:5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Acts 2:38 But Peter said to them: Do penance, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins: and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is to you, and to your children
It's seems to me Lord that you want those curtain climbers baptized, but could you have talk with these folks (see below)?
“....repent and be baptized...”
Kinda means you have to know what repent mean and do that as well. Being dunked under water or being sprinkled with water is a bath / shower without the first part of repentance. A child that does not know right from wrong does not know what repenance means and is therfore not able to repent.
As a Reformed Presbyterian you have no argument from me on infant baptism.
“Baptism starts the process of salvation”
Here I always thought it was the accepting of Christ as ones’ saviour.
“...repent and be baptized...” refers to adult converts. Just as the children of adult converts to Judaism were included in the covenant via circumcision once the adult convert had himself been circumcised, so are the children of adult converts to Christianity called to baptize their children as their inclusion in the new covenant where there is neither man nor woman, slave nor free....
“A child that does not know right from wrong does not know what repenance means and is therfore not able to repent.”
and therefore sprinkling a bit of water on the poor kid means nothing to him/her.
Disagree or not, just so you know where we come from on the issue.
| Infant Baptism by Mark J. Bonocore Is it correct and Apostolic to Baptize infants and children before the age of reason? Well, first of all, it must be admitted that there is no specific reference to infant Baptism in the Scriptures. However, that's really beside the point, since there is nothing that speaks against infant Baptism either; and, as you and I were discussing at the Oratory, there is also no Scriptural account of Baptizing retarded or mentally-imbalanced people, yet the Church has always done so. Case in point, in Matthew 17:14-18, we are told how Jesus cast out a demon from a young boy because of an appeal by the boy's father:
And Jesus heals the boy because of the father's faith. Now, obviously, it was not possible for this boy to have faith in Jesus on his own. He was psychologically and spiritually disturbed (whether naturally or supernaturally); yet Jesus used the father's faith to make him whole again. So, if such a thing is possible with demonic possession, why should Baptism be any different? Many retarded and/or insane people do not have the ability to reason so as to "accept Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior" (as the Evangelicals say ;-) Yet, didn't Jesus come to save them as well? Don't they need to be Baptized into Christ? (Rom 6:3; Gal 3:27) Well, if so, then why should we assume that the ability to reason is necessary for Baptism? Why can't babies be Baptized before they reach the age of reason? Well, an Evangelical might tell you that it's because the ability to reason is necessary before one can sin. And, indeed, that is very true. We Catholics have an old expression:
So, our Evangelical brothers and sisters try to apply this to Baptism. In the case of an infant or a retarded person, they will say that these lack the ability to reason, and therefore they are free of guilt. And, again, that is very true. However, think about what it implies. :-) What this implies is that infants and retarded people do not need a Savior! Which, to us Catholics, is completely ridiculous. :-) We know from Scripture itself that Christ came to save everybody, including infants and retarded people. He is their Savior just as much as He is the Savior of rational, healthy adults. So, the real issue with those who deny infant Baptism is that they deny the reality of what we call original sin, something which non-Catholics usually confuse with "original guilt" (which Catholics DO NOT believe in). For example, we do not hold that a child is born guilty of sin. That is not the Catholic position at all. Rather, we believe that the child is personally innocent; however, because of the sin of Adam and Eve, the child is born with a "macula" (in Latin, a "dark spot") -- a lack of the light of God's grace in the soul (something the Virgin Mary did not lack, and so she is the Im-maculate Conception). This lack of God's light (grace) is why we have an inclination toward sin; and all people (whether they have the ability to reason or not) suffer from it. Yet, in Baptism, we receive the Holy Spirit, and become adopted sons and daughters of God. The light of God's grace dwells in our souls, and so we have the ability to overcome our sinful inclinations and live as the children of God we are called to be. And this is why we believe that Baptism is a Sacrament. It is not something which we do to ourselves, but it's something that is done to us by God through the ministry of His Church. We merely accept it; or someone else accepts it for us. Source: http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/a26.htm |
A baby is not capable of repentance, as it has no understanding of right or wrong. Secondly, repentance means you acknowledge your sin and make an effort not to do this again. A child has neither of these capabilities. Thirdly, no man may speak or promise on behalf of another man - you cannot repent for my sins, nor I repent for yours.
The child is simply nothing more but a puppet in a ceremony, having neither voice, vote or understanding of the covenant he is being entered into.
If we were to actually bother to read the bible, you would read that multitudes were preached to, and children were encouraged to learn. The bible states that men and women were baptized, but NEVER a child. This includes Jesus Christ, who went to a temple as a child, but was not baptized until he reached the age of accountability, and fully understood and willfully accepted the covenant he was to enter into.
Well now you know better.
How does the Kingdom of heaven belong to them then?
Give it a couple of decades nd you guys will get another message and change 180 degrees
Here I always thought it was the accepting of Christ as ones’ saviour.
Well now you know better.
Yep. Silly Bible.
I was raised Methodist, and then went to Southern Baptist and now in a non-denominational evangelical church.
Personally, I think infant baptism is more of a promise the parents make to God to raise the infant up in a Christian household.
Then when the child is old enough, he can join the church (or confirmed in the Catholic church) and that’s when the full affect of the baptism takes place. The part that needs faith and repentence.
My children were baptized as infants. Then my son wanted to be baptized when he was older, and my daughters want to be baptized again in our current church.
I liked baptizing my kids because I was making a pact with God. I was dedicating them to him. (My husband is not very religious. He respected my decision in this matter.)
Good article!
Que bien, señora!
Faith alone in Christ alone.
Et tu Hodar
1 Peter3:21 This prefigured baptism, which saves you now. It is not a removal of dirt from the body but an appeal to God 7 for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to him.
Good article!
—
Thanks!
You may consider reading the whole Bible not jsut the cliff notes your pastor gives you.
1 Peter 3:21 This prefigured baptism, which saves you now. It is not a removal of dirt from the body but an appeal to God 7 for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to him.
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