Jn 3:5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Acts 2:38 But Peter said to them: Do penance, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins: and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is to you, and to your children
It's seems to me Lord that you want those curtain climbers baptized, but could you have talk with these folks (see below)?
“....repent and be baptized...”
Kinda means you have to know what repent mean and do that as well. Being dunked under water or being sprinkled with water is a bath / shower without the first part of repentance. A child that does not know right from wrong does not know what repenance means and is therfore not able to repent.
As a Reformed Presbyterian you have no argument from me on infant baptism.
“Baptism starts the process of salvation”
Here I always thought it was the accepting of Christ as ones’ saviour.
Disagree or not, just so you know where we come from on the issue.
A baby is not capable of repentance, as it has no understanding of right or wrong. Secondly, repentance means you acknowledge your sin and make an effort not to do this again. A child has neither of these capabilities. Thirdly, no man may speak or promise on behalf of another man - you cannot repent for my sins, nor I repent for yours.
The child is simply nothing more but a puppet in a ceremony, having neither voice, vote or understanding of the covenant he is being entered into.
If we were to actually bother to read the bible, you would read that multitudes were preached to, and children were encouraged to learn. The bible states that men and women were baptized, but NEVER a child. This includes Jesus Christ, who went to a temple as a child, but was not baptized until he reached the age of accountability, and fully understood and willfully accepted the covenant he was to enter into.
Good article!
Faith alone in Christ alone.
Well, let’s put this article right up there on the Top 5 list for sloppy prooftexting and sorry excuse for exegesis.
Using this method, a person could cut and paste an argument for any silly thing in the world.
Looky here, Mama, I got all these verses that, when I put em all together in a special line-up and squint one eye, it tells me that yer Aunt Imogene is the second coming of Moses’ sister Miriam. Shazam.
Agree. I knew a Lutheran pastor who did some chaplaincy work in a Baptist Hospital in Nashville and whenver there was dought about survival of the infant because complications, they would have him baptize their child just to play it safe. I always found that interesting.
Agree. I knew a Lutheran pastor who did some chaplaincy work in a Baptist Hospital in Nashville and whenver there was dought about survival of the infant because complications, they would have him baptize their child just to play it safe. I always found that interesting.
Sorry, baptism is NOT a means to salvation. All scripture listed above as support for this claim, all also reference believing in Jesus Christ, the real and only means to salvation. (except Rom 6:35 which isn't in my bible 1-23)
(John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.)
I remember being baptized (the first time), as a five year old. I remember it being a big deal, where I was the center of attention, and for once I was important. I did have it explained to me about the roll of my godparents (Ray & Dorothy), should that ever become necessary. I got a huge shiny stop watch as a gift. I got sprinkled, words were said, then it was over and I had no idea what it all meant except for some reason my parents were expecting to die prematurely.
Does a newborn have more understanding than a five year old? Baptize babies all you want, it won't save them, but it won't hurt them either. It very well may be a significant affirmation of God, and parents willingness to ask God to bless their child. All good things, but not salvation.
Are they saved by God's grace? I think so.
Age of accountability? I think so, although I don't think it is some arbitrary age, rather a specific point in ones life regardless of years of life. This is just my opinion, I will have to wait for the answer to this mystery to be shown to me.
Were those in the house of Cornelius who were speaking in tongues as Peter delivered a sermon not saved until Peter baptised them?
>>God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism<<
That is a misinterpretation of Scripture. The paragraph includes the statement “reborn of water and the Spirit”. The verse that comes from is John 3:5 (and it doesn’t say reborn but born)
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
That refers back to Ezek 36
Ezek 36: 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
He was not talking here about physical water but the cleansing of his word. He also calls His word “living water”.
God made this promise to Israel about a new covenant. He said, “Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all you idols. Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put my Spirit within you and cause you to walk in my statutes, and you will be careful to observe my ordinances or my commandments.”
Now what Ezekiel is writing there is, that the day is going to come when the Lord will wash your heart, he’ll wash your life; he’ll wash your inner man. He’ll put a new heart in you and he’ll put his Spirit in you.
So when Jesus talks to Nicodemus and says, “you must be born of the water and the Spirit,” Nicodemus knows immediately that he is saying, “I am come to bring the fulfillment of the promised new covenant, promised to and through Ezekiel.” Okay? See his is a Jewish Old Testament context, and so it would be actually what the apostle Paul calls, “The washing of regeneration.” The washing, the internal washing of regeneration, and the renewing that comes by the Holy Spirit, that’s Titus 3:5 where you have both the water and the Spirit.
The whole phrase “born of water” is only referring to “born of Jesus word” not physical baptism.
Baptism is only an outward sign of the washing of the word of Jesus. The word is like a living stream of water. Scripture speaks often about the word of God as a stream of living water. Baptism has nothing to do with Salvation. Many people throughout the Bible were saved without being Baptized. The thief on the Cross being one of them.
38 And he ordered the chariot to stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch; and he baptized him. 39 And when they came up out of the water
1. One must Believe in order to be Baptized, same as Jesus stated in Mark 16 - He who believes and is Baptized will be saved. can a an infant believe? Also Acts 2:38 say one must Repent, can a baby repent.
2. Note how they both went to the water, and both came out of the water, how do you come out of water that is sprinkled on someone.
When it says household you are reaching to say it included children (infants), their children could have been at an age where they believed (say 15 or 16), I don't see how that states there had to be infants present.
Taking Matt 19:14 totally out of context.
The children were bothering Jesus and keeping the adults from being able to talk to him. Infants “in arms” would not be bothering anybody except the parent holding them. The disciples were specifically trying to keep “self-ambulating” children away from Jesus and this is what he is referencing.
My children have accepted the Lord at age 4.5 and up. I would never keep one of my children from accepting the Lord when they, in their hearts, determine they need to. But if infant baptism makes you sleep better, keep on believing it.
"Baptism Now Saves You" - Nuts & Bolts - Tim Staples
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Baptism: Initiation and Regeneration
Are Catholics “Born Again?”
Baptizing infants, Pope speaks of 'adventure of being disciples'
Celebrate Your Birthday in the Church
Infant Baptism
Once a Catholic . . . (and part 2) . . . The Chicken's Questions
How Soon Should a Baby be Baptized?
Baptismal Complexes- The Sacrament of Baptism, Part 2
The Catechism of St. Thomas Aquinas BAPTISM
Beginning Catholic: The Sacrament of Baptism: Gateway to New Life [Ecumenical]
Converted Muslim Tells Story Behind Papal Baptism
What You [Catholics] Need to Know: Baptism [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 20: The Sacrament of Baptism
Baptism and the Usus Antiquior (Catholic/Orthodox Caucus)
Justified by Baptism (fallout from the Beckwith conversion grows)
The Million-Dollar Infant Baptism
Mystical Baptism and Limbo
The Early Church Fathers on Baptism - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
A Critique of a Critique (On Baptism by Immersion)
Catholics, Reformed Christian Churches sign document recognizing common baptism
Having reading all the preceding posts pro- and con- the article, I note that there is a great deal of talking past each other and of arguing “what the church teaches” instead of what Scripture teaches. This is true of both Catholic and non-Catholic posters.
Wouldn’t it be simpler and more constructive to stick with one point, settle it on the basis of Scripture, and then move on to the next point?
So, point one: For whom is baptism commanded (I trust no one will say that it isn’t)? Where is this written?