Posted on 10/24/2010 8:05:32 AM PDT by Colofornian
Joseph and Lucy Mack Smith. Both parents were poorly educated, very superstitious, and deeply involved in the occult (magic). The destitute Smith family moved frequently, with the mystical Joseph Sr. etching out a meager existence by farming, digging for buried treasure, and "water witching." When all else failed, he even attempted to mint his own money (a practice that was disliked by the local constabulary).
The Smith family had a reputation for low moral character. According to more than sixty affidavits signed by members of the community, "...we have no hesitation in saying, that we consider them destitute of moral character, which ought to entitle them to the confidence of the community. They were particularly famous for visionary projects, spent much of their time in digging for money which they pretended was hid in the earth;...Joseph Smith, Senior, and his son Joseph, were in particular, considered entirely destitute of moral character, and addicted to vicious habits." 1
Joseph, Jr. learned well from the poor examples shown by his parents. According to one acquaintance, "...his habits of exaggeration and untruthfulness...and by reason of the extravagances of his statement, his word was received with the least confidence by those who knew him best. He would utter the most palpable exaggeration or marvelous absurdity with the utmost apparent gravity." 2
Joseph Smith, Jr. spent his youth practicing what we know today to be witchcraft and occultism--drawing magic circles, crystal gazing (with his famous "peep stone"), water-witching, sacrificing animals to manipulate the spirits, enchantments, communication with familiar spirits (necromancy), and astrological magic talismans and swords.
SNIP
(1) Walter Martin, The Maze of Mormonism, 1983, p. 25 (from Mormonism Unvailed, E. D. Howe, 1834, p. 261) (2) Ibid. (from The Origin, Rise and Progress of Mormonism, Tucker, 1847, p. 16)
(Excerpt) Read more at usminc.org ...
No-Wire-Hangers ?
John 6:28-29
Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?"
Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."
I will never believe that God is going to torture the souls of people for eternity who are kind and charitable, and whose lives are devoted to well doing.
We read THIS in the BIBLE; too!
It is likewise, simple to understand; even if you do NOT wish to 'believe' it.
John 3:16-18
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Shame on you for continuing to post that bit so full of falsehoods.
Where??
I saw NONE!
Can you point out what YOU found??
I stooped down and pointed out one. Silly of me to waste my breath. The responses make that even more obvious. It’s full of falsehoods.
Anyone curious, read it then study it out on your own and you will see the ahah moments will come just as frequent as I have said. It’s quite pitiful actually.
Really?
I went back over a week of your post because I really wanted to see it, to congratulate you but I find nothing.
Can you give me a link so I can be amazed.
“To me, one of the great absurdities of the anti-mormonism argument is how people whose lives are patterned after the teachings of Jesus Christ are on their way to the infernal realms for eternity.”
And this is one strong reason why I do not believe you understand the message of salvation in the Gospel.
“I will never believe that God is going to torture the souls of people for eternity who are kind and charitable, and whose lives are devoted to well doing.”
Then it’s a great thing you are in a feelings-based religion, instead of a truth-based faith.
I have admonished you repeatedly, though, that your
feel good experience will some day meet truth and
your feelings will change instantly from good to horror
when you finally get it. I pray you get it before that
point, Normandy.
“Anyone curious, read it then study it out on your own and you will see the ahah moments will come just as frequent as I have said. “
Is this a promise?
If so, please explain the millions who read, studied and who had an “ahah moment” that told them mormonism is a false
religion and perversion of Christianity.
You are right about the “frequent” part. Millions frequently
come to realize mormonism is false.
ampu
Normandy, you’ve taken from Romans what fits your agenda, but failed to post the scriptures honestly. Let’s take a look at Romans, all of chapter two, to get the full gist of what Paul was teaching. If you apply an honest perspective, perhaps you will conclude as so many have before that the law of 'do this and don’t do that' saves no one the way faith in Christ as Deliverer saves, because you cannot keep all the law all the time, and to trust in the law to make yourself 'righteous enough' then is to dishonor God’s Grace in Christ.
I will try to keep all my editorializing in italics, for clarity. Paul is writing to Jews in Rome, probably most of whom were Christians but confused as to what to do with the Judaizers trying to twist the Gospel Of Grace in Christ giving freedom from the rituals of Jewish ‘self-righteousness’.
Romans 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. 2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. 3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? (If you do not keep all the law all the time, but judge others to be falling short of the law, you will not escape the judgment of God against all unrighteousness) 4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? ( A clear appeal to the Grace of God in Christ juxtaposed with trying to keep the law, as ‘doing all that you can do to be worthy, to be owed’. That path was the urging of the Judaizers.) 5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
(The following lengthy passage, which you quoted from, out of the context, refers to judgment upon all those who thinking themselves able to be judged according to the law, rejecting the Grace of God offered in Christ Jesus. Try to follow the reasoning of Paul, as he takes this prideful man apart, piece by misguided piece, speaking to the Jew who believes himself more worthy than the gentile.)
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds: (Proverbs 24:12) 7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth(Jesus IS The Truth, as Paul is teaching in the Roman letter. He is contrasting all who do not believe in The Truth, and the judgment Paul addresses is the final judgment, the judgment for all whose life is not hide with Christ, in Christ.), but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile: 10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
(Now Paul makes the previous reasoning clear as to whom he is speaking. There are two sets of humans in Paul’s syllogism: those in Christ thus already righteous before the law since Jesus fulfilled all the law and the prophets in their stead, and those who will have judgment without Christ, by their ability to try and keep the law even if they knew nothing of the law given to the Jews!)
11 For there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. (And who has Paul said can keep all the law so as to achieve righteousness in their self? … No one except Jesus!)
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; 16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, (You could read ‘Mormon’ in the place of ‘Jew’ here, for Mormon’s believe they are living righteous lives as best they can and that this will cause God to then apply the Grace of God in Christ to them who eschewed Christ as Redeemer until after all that they could do to be worthy!) 18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law; 19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness, 20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? 22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? (When a man believes he can do enough to merit the application of God‘s Grace in Jesus, that man is committing idolatry, raising himself with pride to the level of ‘I am good enough so God owes me‘, or ‘I can be good enough to become a god, also! Mormonism teaches idolatry with the Lorenzo Snow couplet!) 23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? 24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written. (Ezek 36:20, 23) 25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. (Paul sweeps away the prideful claim that one can be good enough in God’s sight, to receive the Grace of God in Christ. Pay attention, Norm, Paul has spoken to you directly.)
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? 28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Joan ???
Thanks for your concern, MHG
Believe it or not, I don’t feel at all entitled to a place in God’s kingdom based upon my own righteousness. You are not going to find me boasting about how “good” I am. I feel entirely inadequate and identify well with the publican who beat upon his breast not looking towards heaven saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. (Luke 18:13)
My only hope comes because of the sacrifice that Jesus Christ made for me and all mankind. He paid the price of my sins and I hope that through His mercies I may be cleansed of my sin. I am entirely in Jesus’ debt.
I don’t see any place for pride in the life of a follower of Christ. The true Christians are the meek, the poor in spirit, the merciful, the pure in heart, the peacemakers.
We know from Malachi the fate of the proud:
“For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.” (Malachi 4:1)
My only hope comes because of the sacrifice that Jesus Christ made for me and all mankind. He paid the price of my sins
____________________________________________
How did He do that ???
To be ignorant of the truth which the Word of God declares is one thing, but to see the contradictions (on the nature of God the Father Almighty and Jesus and angels and Salvation, etc) and yet choose to believe the lies of Smith and later LDS teachers repeating and affirming the contradictions is quite another thing.
Hi MHG,
No demonic power keeps me a Mormon — it’s the Spirit of the Lord. I have felt more light and peace in my life since becoming a Latter-day Saint than ever before. I’m thankful to the Lord for blessing and helping me in so many ways.
Best regards,
Normandy
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Some Non Defenders Non Defend by claiming what we say has been covered over & over @ links they provide...
These Non Defenders claim these are Non issues...
...and that all you need to do is click, pop in a word in the search, click again and voila!
...”needles of wisdom” just pour forth from your computer screen...
Some Non Defenders claim one such haystack link worth investigatin' is fairlds.org...
...So when you take up this defective deflective challenge...
...and put in a phrase like “Adam-God” [re: Brigham Young's teaching that the first man, Adam, was God] in the search box of that Web site, the second entry that pops up from that search is Church doctrine/Repudiated concepts/Adam-God [This is FAIR's WIKI format attempt to address some things]
Some Non Defenders claim such entries at their links both "address" and "answer" these claims...
...yet when you check under the hood of this lemon, you get varied Lds apologists' opinion about Brigham's "Adam is God" teaching...
...like: Brigham was wrong [Joseph Smith said the very “first principle” of the Mormon gospel was to know the character of God, (King Follet funeral sermon), yet Brigham couldn't get a kindergarten identity issue down in not being able to distinguish Adam from God?]
Some Non Defenders claim such entries at their links reinforce for us such attractive snapshots of Brigham Young, such as Lds apologist Van Hale's concession that Brigham was ”mistaken” about who Adam was and that Adam, after all, was a ”complex doctrinal subject.”
Some Non Defenders claim such entries at their links love to cite Lds “apostle” letters from almost 30 years ago, letters which concede THAT BRIGHAM YOUNG, CONTRADICTED BRIGHAM YOUNG, AND THE ISSUE BECOMES ONE OF WHICH BRIGHAM YOUNG WE WILL BELIEVE. [Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie, 1981 letter cited on link above]
Therefore, instead of Non Defenders just telling you outright that Lds “apostles” concede that...
Brigham Young taught falsely who God was...
But didn't always identify Adam as God...
Therefore, Brigham Young was theologically schizophrenic...
And that Brigham Young was 100% untrustworthy, because we don't know (still) which Brigham Young to believe?
...he makes you click twice, type in a word, and read an entire Mormon FAIR Wiki entry!!!
Some Non Defenders claim such entries at their links don't all agree what Mormon apologists should do about Brigham's out-of-tune “glitches” … as if you – the spiritual inquirer – just warm up and tingle all inside whenever you hear admissions from “the faithful” that their flock front man “glitches” on basic Genesis quizzes like, “Who was Adam?” But, not wanting to psychoanalyze Brigham Young as spiritually schizophrenic, what's a Mormon apologist to do?
Well, that narrows down the conclusions left for the average Mormon apologist, if you follow the links provided by some Non Defenders.
Why, if Brigham wasn't schizophrenic, what then?
Final “options?”...
The summations below precede the bracketed {actual quotations found @ one of Non Defender's links -- FAIR's WIKI entry on Adam-God being "repudiated"}
#1 Brigham was PR-challenged {“A final explanation is that Brigham Young believed and taught Adam-God...but he...didn't live long enough to 'develop' the teaching [read: spin] into something that could be reconciled with LDS scripture...”}
#2 Brigham inspired a LOT of Mormon agnostic followers about who God was: {”We don't know...In this view, we simply don't know what Brigham Young meant...”}
#3 Brigham's plain English was non-interpretable minus either a decoder ring, or dark hat, or the Joe Smith special urim and thummim {"We simply don't know what Brigham Young meant."...why that could only mean they don't know plain English!!!}
#4 Brigham's “revelation receptor” was “glitch” prone – comparable to the Ford Pinto of a later era {”An anomaly is a glitch.... A classic example of an anomaly in the LDS tradition is the so-called "Adam-God theory." -- BYU professor Stephen Robinson}
#5 Brigham inspired in the average Mormon apologist this “confessional credo”: “How do we Mormons deal with these questions? We don't. We abandon them...like we abandon you the inquirer...like we abandon the questions on FR.” {”So how do Latter-day Saints deal with the phenomenon? WE DON'T; WE SIMPLY SET IT ASIDE.” – BYU professor Stephen Robinson}
Such “gems of wisdom” await you all...all at the multiple click of a mouse!
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