Posted on 10/24/2010 8:05:32 AM PDT by Colofornian
Joseph and Lucy Mack Smith. Both parents were poorly educated, very superstitious, and deeply involved in the occult (magic). The destitute Smith family moved frequently, with the mystical Joseph Sr. etching out a meager existence by farming, digging for buried treasure, and "water witching." When all else failed, he even attempted to mint his own money (a practice that was disliked by the local constabulary).
The Smith family had a reputation for low moral character. According to more than sixty affidavits signed by members of the community, "...we have no hesitation in saying, that we consider them destitute of moral character, which ought to entitle them to the confidence of the community. They were particularly famous for visionary projects, spent much of their time in digging for money which they pretended was hid in the earth;...Joseph Smith, Senior, and his son Joseph, were in particular, considered entirely destitute of moral character, and addicted to vicious habits." 1
Joseph, Jr. learned well from the poor examples shown by his parents. According to one acquaintance, "...his habits of exaggeration and untruthfulness...and by reason of the extravagances of his statement, his word was received with the least confidence by those who knew him best. He would utter the most palpable exaggeration or marvelous absurdity with the utmost apparent gravity." 2
Joseph Smith, Jr. spent his youth practicing what we know today to be witchcraft and occultism--drawing magic circles, crystal gazing (with his famous "peep stone"), water-witching, sacrificing animals to manipulate the spirits, enchantments, communication with familiar spirits (necromancy), and astrological magic talismans and swords.
SNIP
(1) Walter Martin, The Maze of Mormonism, 1983, p. 25 (from Mormonism Unvailed, E. D. Howe, 1834, p. 261) (2) Ibid. (from The Origin, Rise and Progress of Mormonism, Tucker, 1847, p. 16)
(Excerpt) Read more at usminc.org ...
Are Mormons political? I thought this forum was for politics. Are you Mormon? Did I accuse you of exterminating or wanting to exterminate anyone? Don’t think so. I don’t believe I’ve accused you of anything. Just my asking the question ‘Why this is relevant?’ makes you hyper-defensive. This begs the question, why do you hate Mormons so much?
Or maybe he was hungry? Africans have run down their own food for centuries. Still do in some parts.
“I thought this forum was for politics.”
OK, now I see the problem...
You stumbled into a thread in the RELIGION forum, not the
politics forum.
Can I get an Amen on that?
I believe that there is a Heaven and a Hell. Everyone will be judged individually not collectively. What does this have to do with the state of the nation. It’s funny how Democrats always site Separation of Church and State, but Obama thinks that Government should do more for people because as he puts it, “I am my brother’s keeper”. BTW - Cain killed Abel. If religion were important in who we as a nation chose for any elected reresentative, then why didn’t we look at Obama’s religion of redistribution during the election?
Well we know that Joey Smith was a thief so are you saying he was stealing his neighbors sheep ???
These people do not call for extermination of Jews and Infidels...
They do not convert people by using force...
________________________________________________
Well maybe not anymore...
but there was a time...
Or maybe he was just a BAAAA-D boy...?
**What does this have to do with the state of the nation.**
The thread is not about the state of the nation, it’s about a religion that claims to have the latest word from the Lord. The church that Smith founded has it’s own book, which contradicts many things that the Lord instructed his original apostles.
BTW, I’m as disgusted as anyone with the Democrat ‘religion’.
Hunger does strange things to a person.
Or maybe he was just a BAAAA-D boy...?
______________________________________________
Well a couple of things we know for sure about the Smith’s
1. They didnt work for a living at an honest job willingly..
2. Joey Smith was arrested and charged with vagrancy and money digging and glass looking while he was young...only his youth kept him out of prison..
3. The Smiths were ex-communicated from at least one Chrsitian church..
4. Joey Smith only ever had 3 years of school and a school mate said he was lazy and no good..
5. The Smiths were not past cheating andf stealing from their neighbors...
(Would you steal if you were hungry ???
Or would you go and get a job for a few hours in exchange for a meal ???
Whats a meal cost 1820-30 prices ???
A few fence post holes ???
A tree chopped down ???
Some cows milked ???
Chickens fed ???
A barn painted/whitewashed ???
Some pigs slopped ???
Are you suggesting you would rather steal than work if you were hungry ???
>> I thought this forum was for politics.<<
You have been here since late in 2000 and you don’t see the RELIGION tag on the upper right hand corner of the page?
Exactly my point...why does advocacy or non-advocacy of exterminating anybody have to do with relevancy on this thread. You are the one who brought that up -- as if 'twas relevant to this thread or site.
I don’t believe I’ve accused you of anything. Just my asking the question ‘Why this is relevant?’ makes you hyper-defensive. This begs the question, why do you hate Mormons so much?
(Do you usually go around contradicting yourself a couple of times in immediate sentences following a previous sentence? Or have you just not had your Sunday coffee yet? Otherwise, in case ya didn't know, calling somebody "hyperdefensive" and a hater does qualify as accusatory)
Our judgment for works is coming up individually...our judgment for sin is broken down into two groups: Those who trusted in Christ Jesus covering that judgment on the cross; and those who didn't. (So the latter is a corporate judgment).
On Sunday afternoons, as NFL kickers boot one through the uprights, we often see John 3:16 signs. Do you realize right after John 3:16...comes these two verses: 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. (John 3:18-19)
IOW, God already has judged our sin. The verdict has already been rendered...and the punishment was taken out upon Christ on the cross.
That's the Christian gospel: That we don't have to to wonder about our eventual destination. 1 John 5:11-13 also expresses how one can have assurance of salvation. (And in John 3:36 and 5:24, Jesus expresses eternal life as something we have -- present tense -- not will have...future tense). The reason for that is because when Jesus Christ defined eternal life, He defined it as “knowing” (a relationship) between His Father and Himself and His people.
We need to ask ourselves: What is the basis of whether or how God will forgive our personal sins?
I think we tend to "miss the boat" in misunderstanding two dimensions of judgment: One dimension is our sin nature and our individual acts of sin--including our sins of omission. The other dimension is our works.
We can't exchange the two. For our sin, Heavenly Father fully judged Jesus on the cross (as I said; this is past tense). When Jesus said "It is finished" on the cross, He used a phrase that in His day was a financial phrase meaning, "paid in full." Our debt -- our sin -- was paid in full. If we try to pay for our sin/atonement, Heavenly Father rejects it as being laced with unrighteousness (Is. 64:6).
And as Judge, both the Father and Jesus could claim, “that's double jeopardy” if we try to pay for what Jesus already paid for on the cross.
But when people talk about God judging the stewardship of our works in the future, they are correct. Note this passage:
By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds. For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's WORK. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; HE HIMSELF WILL BE SAVED, but only as one escaping through the flames. (1 Cor. 3:10-15)
Do we see that last sentence? Even if our work is burned up, we can "suffer loss" in heaven -- yet, Paul assures us that "he himself WILL BE saved." (Paul goes on to describe that like somebody pulled out of a burning building at the last second...by Jesus Christ the Deliverer and Rescuer).
So, our works will get quite a "grilling" of judgment from God -- future tense. But Paul makes it clear in this passage that even when our measured works burn up as nothing -- as God's fiery judgment takes a match to them like fuel, we ourselves "will still be saved." (1 Cor. 3:15)
So the righteousness of Jesus is our free pass into heaven. (1 Cor. 1:30). Entrust your life to Him (that is more than just mouthing a few words). But simultaneously, be prepared that once you get there based solely upon your faith in Christ, that He will take a fine-toothcomb to our works -- and judge them. And that it's possible to still become saved -- and still "suffer loss."
(None of us should want to suffer such loss in heaven -- whatever that turns out to be). If anybody's shooting for trying to show God how "worthy" they are, they are worshiping the wrong God. (The word "worthy" is tied to "worship"; and we are not to either worship or "worthship" ourselves). Our value and worth was shown by Jesus at the cross. He died for us. We are only "worthy" in Him. 'Tis NONE of it is of ourselves.
On top of that, Jesus says we need to be perfect (Matt. 5:48). And if we break one part of the law, we are guilty of all of it (book of James). Therefore we fall short. Our self-worth is never enough. Our only hope is to have our sin be judged according to the perfection of Jesus Christ, which is substituted on our behalf. That's why Paul says Jesus is OUR Righteousness. (1 Cor. 1:30)
Are you suggesting Blacks would rather steal than work?
Joey Smith was black ???
Are you sure ???
How odd...
I bet you will probably tell me News/Activism is for news articles and such as well.
Seems rather foolish...
The one I know is...
“You have been here since late in 2000 and you don’t see the RELIGION tag on the upper right hand corner of the page?”
Honestly, No I didn’t see the tab. I clicked the “latest articles” link to get on Freerepublic. My bad.
I’m glad I did though. Our path to finding God should be a positive and enlightening experience. We are all sinners and will be judged accordingly. I try not to be intolerant towards anybody’s religion, so this really has opened my eyes that there are people that hate Mormons.
I’m not a Mormon myself, but ALL the LDS people that I have met have be kind, God-fearing, welcoming people. I’ve attended their church to see what they were about. I personally saw nothing to hate. The Book of Mormon is questionable to me, but I see no reason to hate them.
There is one religion that I would flat-out call devil worship and would feel the need to preach about, but it isn’t Mormonism. So, I don’t understand the condemnation.
That is all.
>> So, I don’t understand the condemnation.<<
I don’t know what your view of faith or religion is but will tell you that the dangers of the Mormon faith a rather severe. The anti Bible beliefs are many but the one that is at the foundation of all their faults in my mind is singular and deadly.
They believe that it is possible for man to ascend to the level of being a god on the level and equal to the one true God Jehovah. That is exactly the same sin that Lucifer committed that caused his expulsion from heaven and damned to eternal hell.
Undecided readers,
If you peruse the Free Republic religion forums you will notice a pattern. There’s an anti-Mormon group of people here that spends a great deal of their time attacking the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. They post regurgitated propaganda on an almost daily basis.
They have a misguided obsession. You can witness many different tactics employed that you might find quite interesting. The straw man argument is a big favorite and is frequently preceded by cherry-picking quotes or other material. After the “quotation” the attacker will misrepresent what has been said or what was meant and then attack their own interpretation. You’ll likely see perfect examples of just this shortly after I post.
Sometimes they cruise the headlines of the day seeking any story that might be twisted into making the Church look bad. Anything will do, just watch the progression of posts following it and see what I mean.
After reading their posts, I invite you to seek the truth about whatever “issue” they seem to be “revealing” or “exposing”. I promise that if you do so with honest intent, the “ahah” moments you will have will be many and frequent. You will start to recognize the tactics employed to cleverly twist and attack and will likely chuckle the more you see. In actuality, there’s nothing new here. It’s all been addressed many times before.
Here’s a few links to get your started from a different viewpoint. I have found that the vast majority of the “issues” brought up can be found and addressed at http://www.fairlds.org/ but here’s more:
http://scriptures.lds.org/
http://www.lds.org
http://www.mormonapologetics.org/
http://www.fairlds.org/
http://www.mormonwiki.com/Main_Page
http://www.lightplanet.com/response/index.html
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDS_Intro.shtml
http://www.answeringantimormons.com/index.htm
http://promormon.blogspot.com/
“Our path to finding God should be a positive and enlightening experience.”
Based on what assumption or truth?
“We are all sinners and will be judged accordingly.”
OR, you could learn about how to have ALL your sins
forgiven before you reach that point... :-) Much better.
Only one path will get you there. Paths that pretend
to be true, while condemning their sincere followers
to hell should be exposed and condemned. That assumes
you have compassion, of course.
“I try not to be intolerant towards anybody’s religion”
And, yet, the Apostle Paul was intolerant of falsehood, the Apostle Peter was intolerant of falsehood, and Jesus Christ was intolerant toward falsehood. Were they wrong?
“so this really has opened my eyes that there are people that hate Mormons.”
Please quote a post that “hated mormons”.
I’ve yet to see one. Mormonism, the false teaching, sure.
What’d’ya got for show and tell?
ampu
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