Posted on 09/18/2010 5:21:57 AM PDT by markomalley
As Pope Benedict was heading to the British Isles he was asked if he thinks the Catholic Church needs to change to be more attractive to an increasingly secular British culture.
This is what he said:
**And it’s not like it is in many non-liturgical churches, where you just go to hear bits of Scripture and an extended homily.**
I’ve gone to a non-Catholic service were there was absolutely NO SCRIPTURE read. Just referenced in a talk about the creation of the world.
Lead Kindly Light, amid the encircling gloom,
Lead thou me on!
The Night is dark, and I am far from home,
Lead Thou me on!
Keep Thou my feet, I do not ask to see
The distant scene - one step enough for me.
**I don’t understand what you mean by “non-liturgical” or “homily”**
Homily — a sermon that dwells on the ideas in the Gospel only. Most Catholic priests give a homily rather than a sermon.
Sermon — a discourse by the priest on any subject. For example — this last Sunday was the Feast of the Holy Family — if the prieist talked about the role of the hierarchy — that would be a sermon, but if he talked about the roles of the father, mother, child, etc. in the family — that would be a homily.
You are saying that religion and culture are two separate things.....what about the Pledge of Allegiance? One Nation Under God.
I guess you are saying that because religion and culure are separate you might not have any values.....is that it?
Might be what’s wrong with our nation — take a look at Obortion O in the WhiteHouse.
You receive the Blessed Sacrament, the Real Presence of Christ at all times?
I doubt it.
You might hold Christ in your heart at all times, except when you sin, and if you are sinless......well, I can’t pass judgment on that one. God will.
Jesus is with us (and in us) 24/7 thru the Holy Spirit...
It's like the verses I posted; what goes into your stomach goes out in the draught...Science says it takes about 20 minutes for whatever goes into your mouth to pass thru the stomach...
It's what goes into the heart/soul that Jesus/The Holy Spirit works...Jesus can't go from your stomach to your soul...
Even if Jesus did turn into the cracker, there's no connection between the stomach and the soul...
I'm confident that many Catholics have trusted Jesus to be their Savior...And are indwelt with the Holy Spirit...But that comes from accepting Jesus into your heart, not your stomach...
The mass is not an educational program like many Protestant services, it is a celebration of worship. You have a responsibility to prepare yourself for participation. It is not difficult to familiarize yourself with the Latin liturgy and its meaning (not simply translation). The Catholic liturgy is rich in symbolism and meanings that are not done justice in English. Besides, the holily will be in English.
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I totally agree with you. I taught 6 years of Latin in my homes chool and my son studied Greek and Russian and German in college.
On a similar note this is the point I tried to make on the King James Bible thread when I said how sad I feel when people say they won’t read the KJV because it was too difficult to understand. My point was not that KJV was the only acceptable version of Scripture, but the fact that it is so much a part of our culture and if their education has left them thinking that KJV is too difficult to comprehend how do they understand Shakespeare or a host of other literary elements so vital to our shared culture.
Even if Jesus did turn into the cracker, there's no connection between the stomach and the soul...Are you weakening Iscool? *smiles*
When I was a kid 50 years ago, it wasn't that way at all We all had missals or prayer books that had Latin on one side and English on the other, and it wasn't hard to follow and to understand. Any 9-year-old could "get" it.
And after awhile, the Latin helps link people across nationalities and across the ages. You were worshipping in the same language whether you were in a Polish parish or an Italian parish or aVietnamese parish; and using the same words used by fellow believers across tens of centuries.
Nowadays my young friend Jhon Dario and I could have to worship in "my language" (English) or in "his language" (Spanish.) But if there were a Latin Mass, we could worship in "our language."
It's not something I would necessarily do all the time. But it's good to have as a live option in a culture-spanning, continent-spanning, centuries-spanning Church.
Right answer.
You would be amazed the Latin foundation of much of English.
Spanish, Italian, French, Portuguese are all Romance languages.
You probably know much more Latin than you think you do...You just weren't taught the entomology of the words..
I’ve been at a Latin Mass. You do as you are bound to do! (as always)
I think he understood me correctly. Obviously I cannot judge his state of mind or the strength of the conviction that he has. But it is fitting to ask, in a theological dispute, faith in what? I have faith in the gospel as written. He, judging by the post I was responding to, doesn't, at least so far as that particular passage is concerned.
I stand by my original post your opinioons on what these verses mean notwithstanding.
The meaning doesn't change. And that's very important because language changes all the time, but the Latin doesn't.
The same thing is true of church. Church that is "with it" and "what's happening now" is at the mercy of the trends of the times. And as C.S. Lewis said, the stuff that tricks you and confuses you is the stuff that "everybody" accepts as "contemporary" and "exciting" and "fun", because it contains the unspoken assumptions that we all accept but that may be dead wrong. He said that the best cure was to read old books. Attending the Mass of the Ages is another method. It does not change and it is not boring.
A main-line Protestant church is not a good comparison, because that hymnal that you find so old and boring probably doesn't even date to the 1950s . . . at least 1000 years younger than the Mass. A mere blip on the time line by comparison.
Learning enough Latin to follow along is just not that hard for anybody with reasonable sense and the desire to study. They make lovely Missals with the English on one side and the Latin on the other, and EVERY Latin Mass church has lots of copies available for visitors. You just pick one up as you go in.
I came late to the Catholic Church - at the age of 45, so I had some catching up to do with the Latin. My parish only uses Latin on the first Sunday of the month, and then only for the Ordinary of the Mass (the parts of the Mass that don't change). Singing in the choir probably helps (it's easier to memorize stuff with music) but I've already got the Ordinary entirely committed to memory. And I've attended the Latin Mass at another local parish and have no difficulty following along.
Consider this: all those illiterate medieval peasants and the scaff and raff of Rome and Liverpool dockworkers and Irish famine survivors and guys in Hell's Kitchen and the Back Bay had no trouble at all understanding what was going on at Mass. And we're too stupid to get it?
It's not that we're stupid, it's that people don't want to go to Latin Mass, so they make the excuse that it can't be understood. It can be and is by completely uneducated people every day.
Yes. They are two distinct things that can be examined independent of each other but that are deeply linked to one another. They both change slowly over time and their changes often move in tandem.
.....what about the Pledge of Allegiance? One Nation Under God.
Thank you for proving my point. The Pledge of Allegiance was written in the late 19th Century. It was originally much shorter than it is now and has changed several times over the years. The "under God" phrase wasn't part of the original Pledge. It was not inserted until the mid 50s.
I guess you are saying that because religion and culure are separate you might not have any values.....is that it?
You and I share a culture (Western Civilization). We do not share a religion. Are you saying that non-Christians who live in the West have no values?
I'd rather go to a reverent Church. A holy Church. A Godly Church.
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