The Catholic Church Is Not Attractive

Crossed the Tiber ^ | 9/17/2010

[markomalley]

As Pope Benedict was heading to the British Isles he was asked if he thinks the Catholic Church needs to change to be more attractive to an increasingly secular British culture.
This is what he said:

“A Church that seeks to be particularly attractive is already on the wrong path.”

I appreciate these words of the holy father as he states very clearly what Jesus had told the disciples. You will be hated for my name sake and persecuted. The church that seeks to become more attractive to present itself in a "new and different" light to be more acceptable to the changing society is not what Jesus had in mind. The early church was cursed and persecuted and thought to be cannabalistic because of its strange and counter-culture beliefs. The early church fathers didn't change their theology or practices to fit into the secular culture of the Roman world. The modern Catholic Church continues to be maligned because of its counter-culture beliefs and practices such as anti-abortion, anti-contraception and hetero-sexual marriage.
I think of the seeker-friendly churches and the mega-churches in our country that have done everything they can to emulate the high-octane, American entertainment industry in an effort to make their churches more "relevant."
I'm sorry but I don't want to go to a "relevant" church.

As GK Chesterton has said: "I don't want to go to a church that changes with the culture. I want a Church that changes the culture."

He also said :

The Catholic Church is the only thing which saves a man
from the degrading slavery of being a child of his age."

[Iscool]

Our answer is, It’s A Mystery. We aren’t permitted to see beyond the veil.

Luk 23:45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.

Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Yes we are permitted to see beyond the veil...The veil is ripped wide open...

We have direct access to the Throne...And God has revealed these Mysteries to us in the scriptures...

You guys are still on the wrong side of the Cross where the veil was intact...

[Iscool]

Actually, perhaps I should say "people" from these denominations are coming back to Rome because they can see the error in their denomination's direction.

Not nearly as many as are leaving 'Rome'...

[Iscool]

"I do not want a Church that is right when we are right. I want a Church that is right when we are wrong."

Problem is, your Church becomes the Standard by which you are judged...You may be right and your Church may be wrong...And how does Chesterson know that he is wrong??? By comparing his beliefs with your Church...

I'll take a church that lines up with scripture, alone...

[Iscool]

I can attest to that -- I've been for mass in: English, Latin, French, Flemish, German, Hindi, Marathi, Konkani, Chinese, Polish, Czech, Italian, Spanish and I knew what was going on. There is the "catholicity" in effect! :-)

You'd know what was going on regardless, as long as you memorized the Mass in your Native language...Latin has nothing to do with it...

[Iscool]

watching His death, His resurrection and rejoicing in His glorious ascenscion

I attended a Catholic Mass more than once...I never saw Jesus for one thing...And I certainly did not see Jesus dying, or his resurrection taking place...

It doesn't really happen...You have to pretend it happens and somehow convince yourself that you can't believe your eyes, because your eyes don't see it happen either...

[narses]

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[NYer]

I would say that a Church that seeks to be particularly attractive is already on the wrong path, because the Church does not work for her own ends, she does not work to increase numbers and thus power. The Church is at the service of another: she serves, not for herself, not to be a strong body, rather she serves to make the proclamation of Jesus Christ accessible…

Pope Benedict XVI - September 16, 2010

[Quix]

INDEED.

[B Knotts]

Jesus spoke often in parables. I do not believe that our Lord was saying that He was literally made of bread, or that bread was made of human flesh.

I generally stay out of the religious forum these days, but I just want to add that after Jesus told the disciples to eat His Body, some of the Jews protested:

The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying: How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

If he meant this figuratively, as a parable, certainly he could have clarified for them. Instead, he reiterated the literal meaning of his words.

Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, abideth in me, and I in him. As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father; so he that eateth me, the same also shall live by me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead. He that eateth this bread, shall live for ever.

Many were not satisfied with this answer:

Many therefore of his disciples, hearing it, said: This saying is hard, and who can hear it? But Jesus, knowing in himself, that his disciples murmured at this, said to them: Doth this scandalize you?

Again, he did not tell them, "well, this is a parable."

Many then left and "walked no more with him." He did not try to stop them. Would He let them go away over a mere misunderstanding?

Anyhow, this is at least my reading of this, FWIW. Merry Christmas!

[ADSUM]

I spoke to my former pastor (now retired)and asked about having a latin Mass at our parish, and he indicated that he has never said the Mass in Latin and was not sure that he would know how.

[mlizzy]

And if you don't leave your Catholic Church within 20 minutes of eating Jesus, you don't leave with Christ either...

Well, I see that Cronos has resurrected a 3-month old thread!:) But I'm interested to know where you get the 20-minute rule. Does this apply to the Word of the Lord as well? And, to me, the proof that Jesus resides in the Eucharist comes from the obvious results of the frequent reception of the Eucharist (and other Sacraments!) by Christ's living saints who tirelessly worked for their Jesus while on earth.

And why wouldn't the reception of Jesus (the literal Christ) make a person stronger in their faith (beyond the 20-minute mark)? Jesus is either a-miracle-gone-bad after 33 years or Our Lord and Savior. How can He be in between? He's either there for us (quite literally, powerful! powerful!) on a daily basis (through His Living Bread), or He took off (leaving us unnourished) soon after the Resurrection.

Faith, I repeat is the condition for Christ performing miracles. Is it any wonder that our faith in the Real Presence, the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, should be rewarded by miraculous phenomena. But, what an important adversative, but, you must believe! --Fr. John A. Hardon, "Christ the Miracle Worker in the Eucharist"

I watched an old movie (winner of 4 Academy Awards, 1943) this Christmas season called The Song of Bernadette, about one of the aforementioned saints, Bernadette Soubirous, a 14-year-old girl, who saw a vision of a "beautiful lady," a lady who states later in another apparition, "I am the Immaculate Conception" in Lourdes, France, a great movie for those who are interested in learning about one of the saints that Jesus gave to us ...

And here's a link to another: St. Gemma Galgani.

Recite the Rosary for Peace.

[mlizzy]

And if you don't leave your Catholic Church within 20 minutes of eating Jesus, you don't leave with Christ either...

Well, I see that Cronos has resurrected a 3-month old thread!:) But I'm interested to know where you get the 20-minute rule. Does this apply to the Word of the Lord as well? And, to me, the proof that Jesus resides in the Eucharist comes from the obvious results of the frequent reception of the Eucharist (and other Sacraments!) by Christ's living saints who tirelessly worked for their Jesus while on earth.

And why wouldn't the reception of Jesus (the literal Christ) make a person stronger in their faith (beyond the 20-minute mark)? Jesus is either a-miracle-gone-bad after 33 years or Our Lord and Savior. How can He be in between? He's either there for us (quite literally, powerful! powerful!) on a daily basis (through His Living Bread), or He took off (leaving us unnourished) soon after the Resurrection.

Faith, I repeat is the condition for Christ performing miracles. Is it any wonder that our faith in the Real Presence, the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, should be rewarded by miraculous phenomena. But, what an important adversative, but, you must believe! --Fr. John A. Hardon, "Christ the Miracle Worker in the Eucharist"

I watched an old movie (winner of 4 Academy Awards, 1943) this Christmas season called The Song of Bernadette, about one of the aforementioned saints, Bernadette Soubirous, a 14-year-old girl, who saw a vision of a "beautiful lady," a lady who states later in another apparition, "I am the Immaculate Conception" in Lourdes, France, a great movie for those who are interested in learning about one of the saints that Jesus gave to us ...

And here's a link to another: St. Gemma Galgani.

Recite the Rosary for Peace.

[ADSUM]

“The church I currently attend is three years old next week. We have 500 at fellowship every Sunday. It is anything BUT old, sad, boring and slow but the message is straight out of the Bible, nothing watered down and nothing left out so as to not “offend.””

I guess the difference is going to the “original church” as founded by Jesus Christ and receiving the Sacrament of the Eucharist and accepting the body and blood of Jesus.

I go to Mass to honor God and pray. My relationship with God is more important.

[Melian]

“It’s not there to entertain.”

That’s an incredibly important point, and a big difference, in the Catholic worship service.

The Latin Mass was not about us as individual worshipers. We, as a body, faced the altar and the priest did too. All focus was on the Divine. We were there to adore the Lord and share in His sacrifice. The priest and altar servers represented us on the altar.

After Vatican II, the focus changed to a more participatory worship for each of us. The priest now faced us; there were no more barriers between us and the altar. Parishioners began performing certain aspects of the Mass.

In many American churches, the pendulum swung too far and the worship became self-aggrandizing entertainment. Laity were giving distracting performances that took away from the true focus of the Mass. Individual parishes kept tinkering with the liturgy, adding things like liturgical dance in the name of making the liturgy more “relevant” to Catholics. It was all misguided pride, in my opinion. And it meant nothing to most Catholics.

Now the pendulum is swinging back and parishes are looking to restore the sacred to Mass. Some parishes also offer a Latin Mass for those who find it meaningful. But most Masses are still in English.

If one wants to observe a Catholic Mass, find one that is being said properly: no one on the altar should be distracting in either dress or attitude. No one should be taking away from the focus of the Mass: the sacrifice. It should not be entertaining; it should be reverent. If it’s not, that parish is in error.

Personally, I love the Catholic Mass for its worship, adoration, timelessness, and solemnity. I feel like everything that happens there is between me and God. I get bored quickly if there is too much of a choir performance.

And one of my pet peeves is when they let the choir sing the prayers “for” us. I want to say every word of the Gloria. One of the biggest problems at Mass today is, in my opinion, out of control choirs and cantors.

Find a good, traditional Mass in English and check it out.

[Salvation]

**“A Church that seeks to be particularly attractive is already on the wrong path.”**

Haven’t we all been saying this for a long time? The Catholic Church and REAL Catholics stand firm against
abortion,
euthanasia,
homosexuality,
same-sex marriage,
embryonic stem-cell research,
and against contraception.

Those who want a cafeteria church won’t get it with the Catholic Church.

Bravo Pope Benedict!

[ADSUM]

Perhaps one way to bring back Latin in our Mass, to say “Pax Vobiscum” Peace be with you and the response in Latin “Et cum spiritu tuo” ( and with thy spirit).

[Salvation]

Pope Benedict quotes Chesterton Ping!

[ADSUM]

Here is a web site of the Latin Mass with English translation.

http://sacred-texts.com/chr/lmass/ord.htm

THE CANON OF THE MASS

Te ígitur, clementíssime Pater, per Jesum Christum Fílium tuum Dóminum nostrum súpplices rogámus ac pétimus (osculatur altare) uti accépta hábeas, et benedícas (jungit manus, deinde signat ter super oblata), hæc dona, hæc múnera, hæc sancta sacrifícia illibáta (extensis manibus prosequitur): in primis quæ tibi offérimus pro Ecclésia tua sancta cathólica: quam pacificáre, custodíre, adunáre, et régere dignéris toto orbe terrárum, una cum famulo tuo Papa nostro N. et Antístite nostro N. et ómnibus orthodóxis, atque cathólicæ et apostólicæ fídei cultóribus.

Wherefore, O most merciful Father, we humbly pray and beseech thee, through Jesus Christ thy Son, our Lord (he kisses the altar), that thou p. 465 wouldst vouchsafe to receive and bless (he joins his hands together, and then makes the sign of the cross thrice over the offerings) these gifts, these offerings, this holy and unblemished sacrifice (he extends his hands and continues), which in the first place we offer thee for thy holy Catholic Church, that it may please thee to grant her peace: as also to protect, unite, and govern her throughout the world, together with thy servant N., our Pope N., our bishop, as also all orthodox believers who keep the catholic and apostolic faith.

The Commemoration for the living.

Meménto, Dómine, famulórum famularúmque tuárum N. et N.

Be mindful, O Lord, of thy servants and handmaids, N. and N.

[ADSUM]

The Latin language is the bedrock of the language of Western Civilization. The Romance Languages of Spain, France, Italy, Portugal, and Romania developed from a hybrid version of spoken Latin and native tongues. Each would also be influenced in turn by other tongues, such as Slavic, Norse and many Germanic dialects. Without Latin, very few of the tongues we speak today would be possible or recognizable in their current forms.

Latin today may be a dormant language but it remains an important piece of our linguistic puzzle. The use of Latin for names of places, anatomy, biology and others still dominates several scientific and medical fields. People all over the world are studying Latin with enthusiasm and energy. It, of course, is still alive and well within the Vatican and the Roman Catholic Church. It is gaining new popularity among modern Italians and Romans; and conventions of Latin speaking people are becoming a regular occurrence in Europe. Latin is anything but a dead language.

[Salvation]

I attended a Filipino Mass last night and did not understand everything that was being said. But I knew what was being said (in English—in my mind.) It made no difference to me; it was still a beautiful and valid Mass.

Afterwards they love to eat! Roast pig and the trimmings — wowsies!

Of course, I was on duty, setting up for Mass, overseeing the hall use and clean-up and securing the buildings — but I still got to eat!