The Catholic Church Changed The Ten Commandments? [Ecumenical]

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[Salvation]

The Catholic Church
Changed The Ten Commandments?

  

 

 

Real Audio Lessons on this Topic

Commandment 1
Commandments 2-3
Commandment 4, 6, & 9
Commandments 5, 7, 8, 10

Some Protestants accuse the Catholic Church of having dropped one of the 10 Commandments. "You're idolators! You worship statues! And because you do, your Church dropped the commandment against graven images!"

The truth, of course, is that the Catholic Church did not and could not change the Ten Commandments. Latin Catholics and Protestants simply list them differently. It is incredible that such a pernicious lie could be so easily spread and believed, especially since the truth could easily be determined by just looking into the matter. But the rumor lives.

Now, below are the ways in which Protestants and Roman Catholics enumerate the Commandments:

Most common Protestant listing:

Thou shalt have no other gods before me
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image
Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy
Honour thy father and thy mother
Thou shalt not kill
Thou shalt not commit adultery
Thou shalt not steal
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour
Thou shalt not covet

Latin Catholic listing:

Thou shalt not have other gods besides Me
Thou shalt not take the Name of the Lord thy God in vain
Remember to keep holy the Lord’s day
Honor thy father and thy mother
Thou shalt not murder
Thou shalt not commit adultery
Thou shalt not steal
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s goods

So what the heck? What did happen to the commandment about graven images in the Catholic listing? Did the Church just "drop" a commandment?

Um, no. The Old Testament was around long before the time of the Apostles, and the Decalogue, which is found in three different places in the Bible (Exodus 20 and Exodous 34 and Deuteronomy 5:6-21), has not been changed by the Catholic Church. Chapter and verse divisions are a medieval invention, however, and numbering systems of the Ten Words (Commandments), the manner in which they are grouped, and the "short-hand" used for them, vary among various religious groups. Exodus 20 is the version most often referred to when one speaks of the Ten Commandments, so it will be our reference point here. Here's how the relevant portion of Exodus 20 reads:

2	I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3	Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.
4	Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5	Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6	And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7	Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8	Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9	Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10	But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11	For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
12	Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
13	Thou shalt not kill. 1
14	Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15	Thou shalt not steal.
16	Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17	Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

So we have 16 verses and Ten Commandments (this we know because of Exodus 34:28 and Deuteronomy 4:13 which speak of the "Ten Words" of God). How to group these verses and Commands? Here's how different groups have handled this:   

	Verses Grouped Together
Counted as Commandment #	Jewish	Latin Catholic, Lutheran	Eastern Catholic, Orthodox, Most Protestant
1	2 (commandment to believe)	3, 4, 5, 6	3
2	3, 4, 5, 6	7	4, 5, 6
3	7	8, 9, 10, 11	7
4	8, 9, 10, 11	12	8, 9, 10, 11
5	12	13	12
6	13	14	13
7	14	15	14
8	15	16	15
9	16	17a (commandment against lust)	16
10	17	17b (commandment against greed)	17

When the Commandments are listed, they are often listed in short-hand form, such that, for ex., verses 8, 9, 10 and 11 concerning the Sabbath become simply "Remember the Sabbath and to keep it holy." Because Latin Catholics group 3, 4, 5 and 6 together as all pertaining to the concept "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me," we are accused of having "dropped" the commandment against idols. That Eastern Catholics list the Commandments differently never enters the equation for people who think this way; they are simply against those they probably call the "Romish popers" and that's that (I hope it doesn't bother them that Jews would accuse them of totally forgetting the First Commandment, or that Latin Catholics could accuse some Protestants of skipping lightly over the commandments against lust. And why don't the Protestants who have a problem with our numbering system go after the Lutherans for the same thing, anyway?).

Bottom line:

• chapter and verse numbering in the Bible came about in the Middle Ages
   

• the Catholic Church (which includes Eastern Catholics, too) has two different numbering systems for the Commandments given, one agreeing with the most common Protestant enumeration;
   

• the Latin Church's numbering is the most common in the Catholic Church and is the one referred to by Protestants who, ignoring Eastern Catholic Churches, accuse the Catholic Church of having dropped a Commandment;
   

• no Commandment has been dropped, in any case, but the Latin Church's shorthand for the Commandments looks different than the typical Protestant version because of how the Commandments are grouped;
   

• everyone knows how to find Exodus 20 in the Bible, anyway -- even us stoopid Latin Catholics; and
   

• we don't care how they are grouped together; we only care that they are understood and obeyed -- not because we are under the Old Testament Moral and Ceremonial Law with its legalism and non-salvific ritual (we aren't!), but because we are to obey God as children of the New Covenant, whose moral law includes the Two Great Commandments (to love God and to love our neighbor) which surpass the Decalogue, and whose Sacraments surpass empty ritual, being media of grace.

Footnote:
¹ The Septuagint, the Latin Vulgate (the official Scripture of the Church), and the original Douay-Reims phrase the Fifth Word as "Thou shalt not murder"; later Douay-Reims versions, such as the Challoner, and the King James Bible, etc., phrase it as "Thou shalt not kill." "Thou shalt not murder," however, is the original intent and the meaning of the earliest texts. Catholics, of course, have 2,000 years of Church teaching and the Magisterium to interpret Scripture, and the meaning of the Fifth Commandment is that one is not to take innocent life. It doesn't entail pacifism, ignoring the needs of self-defense and justice, worrying about squashing bugs, etc.

---

Further Reading

The Catechism of the Catholic Church: Section on the Ten Commandments

[Religion Moderator]

"Privy" would not be potty language.

However, on an ecumenical RF thread, a remark that another poster's Diety used a privy, might be "antagonistic" depending on the context and the reaction.

[netmilsmom]

>>However, on an ecumenical RF thread, a remark that another poster’s Diety used a privy, might be “antagonistic” depending on the context and the reaction.<<

Well, actually I was referring to Jesus in the Bible.

John 1:14-18 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.

So if another poster is speaking of a Jesus that did not become flesh, maybe he/she should make that clear. I never clarified it with “your Jesus” or “my Jesus”, I just said Jesus. As I remember, that poster doesn’t name his Diety as Jesus. So maybe we are talking about two different Dieties.

If the reaction of a word is the criteria, which borders on “niggardly”, then I retracted the “privy” statement anyway and asked if Jesus got dressed.

But I guess if that poster’s Diety didn’t become Flesh, I’m sure he didn’t get dressed either.

[mlizzy]

..so is this what you’re saying: “We may have a statue of Mary by our front door. We may put flowers by it, burn incense in front of it or kiss it daily. But it’s not the actual statue that we are adoring. It’s a represenatation of Mary in heaven. And she is who this adoration goes to.” Is this right?

Hi small voice! I hope it's okay I'm answering one of your questions even though it wasn't sent to me. First of all, we do not use the word "adore" in regard to Mary. We admire her, love her, but adore Jesus only! I built a grotto in our back yard, and I sit by it every day, praying various prayers. As Christ's mother, she well knows how to contact her Son, and she passes these "multitude!" of prayers along to Him. I kiss or throw kisses to the statue, because it's a way of showing love to Mary. The one thing I liked most about Mary initially was that she was the only person to ever walk the face of this earth who didn't sin, that wasn't Christ. The fact she is a woman bodes well for the female contingent. I know non-Catholics, by and large, do not believe in the Immaculate Conception (Mary conceived without sin). For that reason, I'll leave this quote:

"We do not first understand in order to believe; we must first believe in order to understand" --St. Augustine.

[Religion Moderator]

What is or is not "antagonism" on an ecumenical RF thread is clearly a judgment call and I usually make the call based on a "where there's smoke there's fire" principle.

For instance, a poster might say the exact same thing on two different ecumenical RF threads with only one removed because on that particular day, another poster took offense.

[netmilsmom]

Well that’s understandable.

So let me just say for the record, I apologize to Salvation for asking if UriÂ’el-2012’s Deity used the privy, as it is her Ecumenical Thread. And to UriÂ’el-2012 for asking if his Deity did that, because I didn’t mean to say that. I was speaking of the Jesus that became flesh and I thought he was speaking of the same.

I’m so confused, so I’m just going to bow out of the thread.

[Hegewisch Dupa]

Stop bowing - they’ll hassle you for worshiping the thread

[trisham]

That makes no sense, unless you’re still awaiting your own individual set of Commandments.

[KC_Lion]

Your Right No Worship, but we do Give our Queen (your queen too) the Honor she is due

those are no differant than the Lincoln Memorial or pictures in your house

[trisham]

This is the problem with presuming to know what is in a person’s heart.

************************

Absolutely correct! We mere mortals have our limitations.

[Theo]

The Messiah had to be born into some family, into some society. Just happened that the Creator chose to provide a Messiah of the world through the Jewish people.

[Alex Murphy]

In the interest of promoting a “discussion of the issues” let’s change it. Do you think that Jesus ever got dressed in the morning?

I doubt you'll get any takers.

Back in 2006, I wrote and posted a song about the improbability that the excess skin from Jesus' circumcision was saved by the early church, but no one thought to save more meaningful relics such as sweat and blood from the Garden of Gethsemane, blood and flailed skin from his scourging - and that's not to mention all other "early years" relics that could have been gathered and collected such as toenail clippings, psoriasis flakes, baby teeth, etc.

I bring it up because a lot of people went berserk when I posted the song. It was deleted within minutes, and at the time, the post was responsible for the most number of "abuse button" complaints ever received for a single post (this was 2006, before the current RF rule was made regarding potty language).

Apparently, it's impossible to discuss Jesus' hygiene without offending a whole lot of people.

[Hegewisch Dupa]

Had it not been a “Weird Al” Yankovic song it might have been okay.... ;)

[Alex Murphy]

My error: the song was posted in 2004.

[InternetTuffGuy]

What’s on top of that box they’re carrying? Why, those must be those high-falutin’ ark-angels I hear tell about.

[small voice in the wilderness]

HI there to you, mlizzy! Thanks for your reply to my post.

The highest form of adoration is Latria. God alone is to be worshipped in this manner.

Hyperdulia is one step below latria worship. It is the highest degree of veneratiotn that can be given to a created being. The Church teaches that Mary alone deserves this honor.

Simple veneration is called Dulia. Saints and angels are to receive this degree of honor by Catholics.

So you are not 'adoring' or 'worshipping' the Virgin Mary as is represented by the statue of Mary by the front door. You are 'hyperduliang' the Virgin Mary as is represented by the statue of Mary by the front door.

Is that right?

But I know that isn't right. No one says they hyperdulia Mary. They say they venerate. But that could be confused with regular saints and angels. They are venerated, also. And so would not be fitting the special place of hyperdulia that Mary alone is given.

Don't you see how confusing this seems? And this is just ONE area of confusion.

ANYWAY, it's good seeing your post, we have found something in common, away from religion, and sometimes that is a GOOD thing! Maranatha! svitw

[small voice in the wilderness]

I bet you’re a better lip reader than I. I bet you can lip read what i’m saying to you between the lines of this post.

[mlizzy]

I don’t find Mary confusing at all, but that’s just me. She is Christ’s mother, I love her and I talk with her; much the same follows with the saints, and I’m forever talking with the angels, both my guardian angel (always giving him a huge pat on the back and a grateful thank you:)), and the ones who come for the consecration as well. But, yes, I’m happy we have common ground in the love of Stevie Nicks’ voice, and lyrics. By the way, she does sound like how I would imagine angels to sound, whatcha’ think? Or did I already bring that up?

[Hegewisch Dupa]

gotta admit that was pretty good response - nicely done

[small voice in the wilderness]

Sorry, really, I HAD to do it! :)

[small voice in the wilderness]

I agree. I think she has the voice of an angel. I think if she had pursued a religious career in music, she would have been on a level all her own.

And if you are ever in the Houston area, and Stevie Nicks is here performing, be my guest and we shall enjoy her together. Wonder what the odds would be of you being here and Stevie Nicks being here, at the same time? lol! But it would be nice. I love going to concerts with people who truly love the performer. Whether it's Handel's Messiah or Fleetwood Mac, is the true love of the music that can overcome differences in other areas! svitw