The Catholic Church Changed The Ten Commandments? [Ecumenical]

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[Salvation]

The Catholic Church
Changed The Ten Commandments?

  

 

 

Real Audio Lessons on this Topic

Commandment 1
Commandments 2-3
Commandment 4, 6, & 9
Commandments 5, 7, 8, 10

Some Protestants accuse the Catholic Church of having dropped one of the 10 Commandments. "You're idolators! You worship statues! And because you do, your Church dropped the commandment against graven images!"

The truth, of course, is that the Catholic Church did not and could not change the Ten Commandments. Latin Catholics and Protestants simply list them differently. It is incredible that such a pernicious lie could be so easily spread and believed, especially since the truth could easily be determined by just looking into the matter. But the rumor lives.

Now, below are the ways in which Protestants and Roman Catholics enumerate the Commandments:

Most common Protestant listing:

Thou shalt have no other gods before me
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image
Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy
Honour thy father and thy mother
Thou shalt not kill
Thou shalt not commit adultery
Thou shalt not steal
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour
Thou shalt not covet

Latin Catholic listing:

Thou shalt not have other gods besides Me
Thou shalt not take the Name of the Lord thy God in vain
Remember to keep holy the Lord’s day
Honor thy father and thy mother
Thou shalt not murder
Thou shalt not commit adultery
Thou shalt not steal
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s goods

So what the heck? What did happen to the commandment about graven images in the Catholic listing? Did the Church just "drop" a commandment?

Um, no. The Old Testament was around long before the time of the Apostles, and the Decalogue, which is found in three different places in the Bible (Exodus 20 and Exodous 34 and Deuteronomy 5:6-21), has not been changed by the Catholic Church. Chapter and verse divisions are a medieval invention, however, and numbering systems of the Ten Words (Commandments), the manner in which they are grouped, and the "short-hand" used for them, vary among various religious groups. Exodus 20 is the version most often referred to when one speaks of the Ten Commandments, so it will be our reference point here. Here's how the relevant portion of Exodus 20 reads:

2	I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3	Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.
4	Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5	Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6	And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7	Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8	Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9	Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10	But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11	For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
12	Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
13	Thou shalt not kill. 1
14	Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15	Thou shalt not steal.
16	Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17	Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

So we have 16 verses and Ten Commandments (this we know because of Exodus 34:28 and Deuteronomy 4:13 which speak of the "Ten Words" of God). How to group these verses and Commands? Here's how different groups have handled this:   

	Verses Grouped Together
Counted as Commandment #	Jewish	Latin Catholic, Lutheran	Eastern Catholic, Orthodox, Most Protestant
1	2 (commandment to believe)	3, 4, 5, 6	3
2	3, 4, 5, 6	7	4, 5, 6
3	7	8, 9, 10, 11	7
4	8, 9, 10, 11	12	8, 9, 10, 11
5	12	13	12
6	13	14	13
7	14	15	14
8	15	16	15
9	16	17a (commandment against lust)	16
10	17	17b (commandment against greed)	17

When the Commandments are listed, they are often listed in short-hand form, such that, for ex., verses 8, 9, 10 and 11 concerning the Sabbath become simply "Remember the Sabbath and to keep it holy." Because Latin Catholics group 3, 4, 5 and 6 together as all pertaining to the concept "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me," we are accused of having "dropped" the commandment against idols. That Eastern Catholics list the Commandments differently never enters the equation for people who think this way; they are simply against those they probably call the "Romish popers" and that's that (I hope it doesn't bother them that Jews would accuse them of totally forgetting the First Commandment, or that Latin Catholics could accuse some Protestants of skipping lightly over the commandments against lust. And why don't the Protestants who have a problem with our numbering system go after the Lutherans for the same thing, anyway?).

Bottom line:

• chapter and verse numbering in the Bible came about in the Middle Ages
   

• the Catholic Church (which includes Eastern Catholics, too) has two different numbering systems for the Commandments given, one agreeing with the most common Protestant enumeration;
   

• the Latin Church's numbering is the most common in the Catholic Church and is the one referred to by Protestants who, ignoring Eastern Catholic Churches, accuse the Catholic Church of having dropped a Commandment;
   

• no Commandment has been dropped, in any case, but the Latin Church's shorthand for the Commandments looks different than the typical Protestant version because of how the Commandments are grouped;
   

• everyone knows how to find Exodus 20 in the Bible, anyway -- even us stoopid Latin Catholics; and
   

• we don't care how they are grouped together; we only care that they are understood and obeyed -- not because we are under the Old Testament Moral and Ceremonial Law with its legalism and non-salvific ritual (we aren't!), but because we are to obey God as children of the New Covenant, whose moral law includes the Two Great Commandments (to love God and to love our neighbor) which surpass the Decalogue, and whose Sacraments surpass empty ritual, being media of grace.

Footnote:
¹ The Septuagint, the Latin Vulgate (the official Scripture of the Church), and the original Douay-Reims phrase the Fifth Word as "Thou shalt not murder"; later Douay-Reims versions, such as the Challoner, and the King James Bible, etc., phrase it as "Thou shalt not kill." "Thou shalt not murder," however, is the original intent and the meaning of the earliest texts. Catholics, of course, have 2,000 years of Church teaching and the Magisterium to interpret Scripture, and the meaning of the Fifth Commandment is that one is not to take innocent life. It doesn't entail pacifism, ignoring the needs of self-defense and justice, worrying about squashing bugs, etc.

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Further Reading

The Catechism of the Catholic Church: Section on the Ten Commandments

[Lera]

When did YHvH or Yah’shua change
the Sabbath from Shabbat to Sunday ?

Or was it changed in the fourth century
as part of the anti-semitism of Nicea ?

shalom b’SHEM Yah’shua HaMashiach

---

Actually Constantine passed a law in Rome making it illegal to worship on Sabado (Sabbath day)to Sunday before he left for Constantinople , before Nicea .

It the didn’t make it law for the churches though until the council of Laodicea (mid third century)

Before then all Christians worshiped on Saturday.
After they started persecuting those who wanted to keep worshiping on the Sabbath .

Church of Laodicea hmmmmmmmmmm what does Revelations say about that church again ? hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

The emperor appoints himself the head of the church and changes the day of worship putting his law above the WORD .... hmmmmmmmmm

[J Edgar]

I think you missed the point of the post. The point being you cannot ascribe worship from a picture, because that entails reading what’s in the person’s heart.

[Salvation]

Great examples. Thanks.

[netmilsmom]

>>Until then..it’s a ridiculous comparison.<<

Got a problem with the Arc of the Covenant? Idol Worshipers!

[BornToBeAmerican]

My apologies. You are right of course.

[BornToBeAmerican]

Yep, sure did

[small voice in the wilderness]

Great post, Lera.

[markomalley]

Actually Constantine passed a law in Rome making it illegal to worship on Sabado (Sabbath day)to Sunday before he left for Constantinople , before Nicea .

It the didn’t make it law for the churches though until the council of Laodicea (mid third century)

Huh?

It was a little bit earlier than the Nicene Council.

Justin Martyr wrote in his first apology (circa AD 150):

And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.

To take it back a bit farther, Barnabas wrote in his letter (circa AD 135):

Further, He says to them, "Your new moons and your Sabbath I cannot endure." You perceive how He speaks: Your present Sabbaths are not acceptable to Me, but that is which I have made, [namely this,] when, giving rest to all things, I shall make a beginning of the eighth day, that is, a beginning of another world. Wherefore, also, we keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead. And when He had manifested Himself, He ascended into the heavens.

Farther back still? Note this from Ignatius' letter to the Magnesians (from around 110 AD or so):

If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day

Still farther back? How about the Didache (AD 60 or so):

But every Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned. For this is that which was spoken by the Lord: In every place and time offer to me a pure sacrifice; for I am a great King, says the Lord, and my name is wonderful among the nations.

[netmilsmom]

The killer of it is, this simple thought.

There was no Golden Calf, only the Graven Image, and The Lord spoke against worshiping it. It was a lump of gold, nothing more.

We have pieces of rock or pieces of paper that represent our loved ones. It doesn’t matter if we put flowers by it, burn incense in front of it or kiss it daily, because we are not kissing that stone nor piece of paper. That is not our intent.
As it was not the intent of The Lord to have us worship the angels on the Arc of the Covenant.

It’s all so silly and simple.

[netmilsmom]

Oh! No need to apologize at all!

I guess there’s just a lot of history in these “Graven Images” threads. Not everyone was in on all of them.

Soon we could get the “Mary on the Cross” (still unproven where it came from)
And the “Mary leaning on a Cross” from a some poor person’s gravestone, where it’s still hasn’t been proven that it’s Mary and sure wasn’t made by the Catholic Church.

A LOOONNNGGGG history here.

[small voice in the wilderness]

..so is this what you’re saying: “We may have a statue of Mary by our front door. We may put flowers by it, burn incense in front of it or kiss it daily. But it’s not the actual statue that we are adoring. It’s a represenatation of Mary in heaven. And she is who this adoration goes to.” Is this right?

[netmilsmom]

>>The Arc of the Covenant was God's. <<

That's right, with "Graven Images" of angels right on it. Carried around with trumpets blaring.

By the standards on this thread, it's being worshiped.

[Uri’el-2012]

Church of Laodicea hmmmmmmmmmm what does Revelations say about that church again ? hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

15 'I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot; I wish that you were cold or hot.

16 'So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth.

17 'Because you say, "I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing," and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked,

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

[netmilsmom]

>>We may put flowers by it, burn incense in front of it or kiss it daily. But it’s not the actual statue that we are adoring. It’s a represenatation of Mary in heaven. And she is who this adoration goes to.” <<

I have a picture of my father who died in 1982. I have been know to kiss it and take it to his grave where I put flowers, have lit candles and even poured a bottle of his favorite Scotch whiskey.

Does that mean I am worshiping him?

[Hegewisch Dupa]

The god of some of the posters here is all-powerful, EXCEPT when He isn’t directly, specifically and solely referred to in a given prayer. Then He turns into some type of deaf-mute

[small voice in the wilderness]

I’m not talking about a picture of your father. I’m talking about a statue of Mary.

[netmilsmom]

Truth be told.

[Uri’el-2012]

Huh?

It was a little bit earlier than the Nicene Council.

All mortal men.

All sinners.

There is no evidence in YHvH's Word
where Sabbath is changed from
YHvH Commanded Shabbat to Sunday.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

[Hegewisch Dupa]

I love that analogy is apparently not allowed/not understood by some here.