Magical Thinking and Why Facts Matter: Considering the Risks of Mormon Irrationality ...

Post-Mormon Scrapbook ^

[delacoert]

Magical thinking goes beyond “belief without evidence” to the point of “belief in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary”.

After midnight on a bitterly cold 4th of February, not far from our home, a young Mormon mother named Christine Jonson bundled up her two children, loaded them in the car and drove to the middle of the cable bridge between Pasco and Kennewick Washington. She kissed her children goodbye, lifted them one by one over the bridge railing, and dropped them into the Columbia River. Christine later recollected hearing faint splashes in the icy water 40 feet below. She did not hear crying and so felt that her children had not suffered too much before they died.

Why? Christine believed that she was a fallen woman, and that with her as a mother, her two boys had little chance of growing up otherwise. In accordance with the teachings of her Mormon faith, she believed that if her two children died before the age of accountability, they would automatically go to heaven. In fact, they would go to the Celestial Kingdom. Christine believed that she would be cast into outer darkness for their murder, but since she was going to hell anyway, she decided to at least try to save her children. Needless to say, this event was of real concern to the local Mormon community. I was greatly saddened by this tragedy.

Worldviews Based on Magical Thinking

This post is part personal story and part cautionary tale. It concerns the risks to individuals, and to society in general, from the use of “magical thinking” as the basis for a worldview and consequent decision-making. The term magical thinking is intended to denote a particularly irrational type of faith (faith being defined as “belief without evidence”). It is the kind of thinking rampant in Mormon culture, wherein otherwise intelligent and often well educated people are willing to proclaim simultaneous believe in diametrically opposed and mutually exclusive concepts such as creation and evolution.

According to Mormon magical thinking, “revelation”, or “proclamation by an authority holding proper keys” is deemed sufficient for one to accept the validity of a proposition based on its source alone. This irrationality is often justified by the idea that sympathetic supernatural forces are ultimately in control. Therefore, no physical or other corroborating evidence of any kind is required. Any evidence contrary to the revealed “truth” is simply ignored.

Thus, magical thinking goes beyond “belief without evidence” to the point of “belief in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary”. A case in point is the widespread belief in the divinity and historicity of the Book of Abraham, as contained in the Pearl of Great Price. This unfounded belief persists in spite of the fact that the papyri from which the book was supposedly translated have been shown to be Egyptian funerary text from the now well known “Book of Breathings”. The claimed source of the Book of Abraham, in fact, has nothing whatsoever to do with Abraham.

What many faithful Mormons don’t seem to understand is that facts matter. This apparent failure to recognize the preeminence of fact over ecclesiastical pronouncement or feeling is shared by many Christians, Muslims and other theists. Whether one is unaware of the facts, ignores the facts, denies the facts, tries to rationalize the facts, or believes the facts and acts appropriately based upon them; facts matter. In the end it is the facts, and the reality they represent, that determine our opportunities and limitations.

The things that one believes about the world and the universe in which we live should be based on reproducible physical evidence interpreted with logic and reason, and not subjective feelings such as a “burning in the bosom”. Decisions based on emotion instead of fact seldom benefit anyone. The failure to recognize relevant facts is an attribute of magical thinking. The risks of this worldview are exemplified by the tragedy related above, as well as by unfortunate events in Mormon history from the Mountain Meadows Massacre to Mark Hoffman’s Salamander Letters. The everyday downside of magical thinking is also reflected in needless guilt, and in the time, energy and financial resources the practice of Mormonism entails.

A worldview based mainly on “burning bosom” decision making, evidence seen with “spiritual eyes”, or the expectation of supernatural intervention, must be considered at least naïve and irresponsible. At its worst, magical thinking can be dangerous and even fatal to the decision-maker and others (sometimes many others).

In stark contrast, development of rational, science based approaches to decision-making has been mainly responsible for the remarkable scientific and technological advances of the 20th and 21st centuries. Despite Mormonism’s frequent claims that science and religion are not in opposition, it should be clear to all by now that they are indeed opposed, and diametrically so.

A Scientist Finds His Way Out

Problems with the logic and voracity of many Mormon teachings first became apparent to me while still in high school seminary. Subject material in Church history and Mormon scripture courses seemed especially tenuous. Even as a teenager, I felt embarrassed for the seminary teacher who stood before our Church History class and declared with a straight face that the biblical Garden of Eden was actually located in or around Daviess County Missouri. He added that the very alter Adam had used to worship the Lord after his expulsion from the Garden was seen there by Joseph Smith. He told us that through revelation, Joseph Smith proclaimed that the place was, in fact, Adam ondi Ahmen.

None in our class had the courage to ask how it was possible that the Garden of Eden could be located 6,500 miles and an ocean away from where Adam’s early posterity lived, as related in the Old Testament. After all, the whole story, including eye witness accounts and a photograph of the place, was right there in black and white in the Church History text book.

Even as teenagers, most Mormon kids I grew up with had learned to accept what was taught in church pretty much without question. The adult response to further inquiry regarding illogical teachings was that more faith was needed, so we seldom bothered. Having been born in the Church, it seemed best to just go along with my peers. Having been taught that we were members of an elite and privileged group, we simply did what was expected of us; we took the classes and graduated. By the time I had finished college and graduate school (with a few Institute classes along the way), I clearly understood the magical thinking required to be a “true believing Mormon”.

As a young scientist and father, the cognitive dissonance generated by the science and Mormonism dichotomy was often a problem. For the most part, however, I was able to compartmentalize the two by adopting the (no longer viable) Steven Jay Gould strategy of considering science and religion to be “non-overlapping magisteria”. Thus, in professional life I relied on and evidence, logic and reason, while in religious life I tried to become comfortable with the myriad of unfounded beliefs encountered at church. After the age of 30 or so, I was no longer able to stand and bear my testimony.

However, for most of these years, the “non-overlapping magisterial” approach for controlling the cognitive dissonance seemed to work well enough. That is, until Christine Jonson drowned her children.

The growing unease with magical thinking that was kindled by these murders was reinforced by the Hoffman Salamander Letters debacle in 1985 and further accelerated by a little personal research into secular, “unsanitized” Mormon history. As anyone who makes the effort can attest, much of what one finds in such an endeavor is definitely not “faith promoting”. I came away questioning how any reasonable person could ignore the overwhelming scientific, historical, geographical, linguistic, and now genetic evidence against the divinity and historical validity of the Book of Mormon. I then embarked on the first of many assignments to Israel and the holy lands of the Old Testament, New Testament and beginning of the Book of Mormon.

Debating a Muslim about Islam, Mormonism and Christianity

While living and working in the Middle East, I saw first hand the fundamental problems of theocratic governance in Islam, and realized that this was also a growing problem in Mormonism (as it has long been in Catholicism). More importantly, it became increasingly evident to me that the magical thinking necessary to maintain a modern theocracy can be dangerous. Unquestioned acceptance of often arbitrary “revelations” and pronouncements, which otherwise deny facts and defy logic, often leads to horrific consequences in the real world.

Friendly debates over religion with an Arab colleague proved valuable in clarifying why this is the case. My Muslim friend and business partner had been educated in the US, was well traveled, and spoke several languages fluently. Muslims often hesitate to discuss their religion with infidels. However, because I had taken an interest in the Koran, and at times was responsible for the safety and moral purity of his oldest son, religion was something we were able to discuss in private. (My daughter often took care of his kids in Abu Dhabi and his oldest son spent a summer with our family in the US.)

Most of these discussions took place during high speed late night drives through the empty desert on in-country business trips (please see end notes). For the purpose of these debates, my general proposition was that the Koran was comprised of the disjointed and often contradictory ramblings of a sincere but misguided man who sequestered himself in a cave for days at a time over a period of 10 years or so. He claimed to have brought forth a new religion from Allah, the one true God, by way of the angel Gabriel. What eventually became the Koran was then passed down as an oral tradition, having been first collected as written text some 20 years after it was received.

I claimed (as would most Christians and most Mormons) that it was madness to base a religion, not to mention the governance of nations, on the vague and muddled pronouncements found in the Koran. Among other problems, I maintained, the Koran cannot be the perfect word of God because it teaches at least two different and incompatible versions of creation, along with a patently weird cosmology (seven layered heavens, stars moving around the earth, etc.), most of which have been proven false by modern science. Giving one’s life for such a religion, far from being evidence of its truthfulness, was nothing less than insanity.

The general proposition of my Muslim friend was that the Koran had been revealed directly from God to the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), with the help of the angel Gabriel, and was indeed the last and most perfect word of God. In contrast, the Christian Old Testament and Judaic Torah (although once perhaps in pure form), were now little more than inaccurately recorded and much-revised oral traditions relating only myth and misunderstanding regarding the true nature and will of God.

He further asserted that the books of the New Testament were arbitrarily selected from among many second-hand stories and legends. These were first written at least 70 years after the claimed events were supposed to have occurred, and by persons having no first-hand knowledge of these events whatsoever. It is evident that the New Testament is filled with myth and inaccuracies including the blasphemous (according to Islam) concepts of a divine Jesus and a triune God. Therefore, he claimed, while these scriptures might contain some semblance of truth, none of these writings (Old Testament, Torah, or New Testament) can now be considered as the authentic, true or complete word of God.

For good measure, he pointed out that Judeo-Christian creation stories and cosmologies, and especially those of the Mormon religion, are no less weird and scientifically unsupportable than those in the Koran. He had become somewhat acquainted with the Mormon Church while in the US. Among the Christian churches, he was most interested in the Mormon Church because of many common beliefs and similarities between Islam and Mormonism in terms of their founding and early practice (please see end notes). LDS creation stories, he assured me, are even more numerous, and just as bizarre, as those of Islam. While he conceded that Mormonism had only three heavens instead of seven, it did teach that God lived on a planet close to a star called Kolob. He dubbed this the “Kolob cosmology” (perhaps a slight mischaracterization on his part).

His claim that there are more different creation stories in Mormonism than in Islam sent me scrambling to the Mormon scriptures. It was worse than he had indicated. Found among the standard works of the Church, the temple endowment rituals, and the writings of the prophet Brigham Young, are no less than six different versions of the creation story, four of them authored by either Joseph Smith or Brigham Young. (Acceptance of all versions as being true is a good example of magical thinking.)

Our discussions turned to ways in which the practice of religion can lead to the needless death of innocents. One such incident that had clearly affected him was the death of an intelligent and attractive Saudi nursing student he once met in London. She was later the victim of an honor killing at the hands of her male relatives. Bound with heavy chains by her father and older brothers, she was thrown into the deep end of the family swimming pool. As is often the case in these private family matters, my friend was never able to learn what her supposed Haram offense had been. I related to him the story of Christine Jonson (please see end notes).

Then more questions. Was the murder of Christine’s children the act of a mentally unstable criminal? Or was it the ultimate Christ-like sacrifice of a courageous and loving mother undertaken to save the souls of precious children? Did the teachings and scriptures of the Mormon Church lead this woman to kill her two children? There is no doubt that the Islamic Koran, or Hadith, or tradition (or all three) gave the Muslim father of the Saudi girl the right to kill his daughter for dishonoring the family. Depending on what scripture was used and how it was interpreted, the Islamic religion could have even required that he kill her. But was it morally right for him to do so?

No sane person could honestly claim that any of these killings were morally justified. One can only conclude that unfounded religious beliefs were enabling, or more than enabling, in both cases. These murders were easily rationalized based on Holy scripture, as interpreted by reasonable people, in the latter part of the 20th century. Two of the murders were justified by Mormon scripture and teachings. (For those Mormons who might disagree with this assertion, I would refer you to the passages in the “Miracle of Forgiveness” and in other writings and pronouncements of Mormon Prophets referring to the doctrine that, given the choice, a person is better off to be innocent and dead than to be alive and morally unclean.)

For readers who feel that the Christine Jonson narrative represents an unfair interpretation of Mormon beliefs, please put yourself in her position. You truly believe that you are condemned to outer darkness, and that if you continue to raise your children, they would almost certainly grow up to meet with the same fate. On the other hand, you truly believe that your children would go to the Celestial Kingdom if they were to die before the age of eight. Knowing how glorious the Celestial Kingdom will be, why would you not do for your innocent children what Christine did to save hers? Like it or not, in light of the unfounded beliefs that comprise Mormon teachings in this regard, Christine’s actions made perfect sense.

To those who would say that no sane person would people kill their children, and so there must have been something wrong with the way Christine Jonson and the Saudi Muslim father were thinking, the correct one-word response would be; “Exactly”.

My Muslim friend and I discussed aspects of both religions that we admired, did not understand, and wished could be changed. One difference we both recognized is that it was possible for a Mormon to proclaim disbelief in Mormonism and still live safely in the US. For many Muslims, on the other hand, open apostasy from Islam can make it extremely hazardous to continue living in their home country (and in the case of well-known apostates like Salman Rushdie, anywhere else).

At some point, we tried to determine an overall winner of our debates. Criteria such as “by their fruits ye shall know them”, as well as elementary logic and attempts at scoring were applied. By these criteria, no clear winner emerged. Christianity, Mormonism, Judaism, and their associated scriptures, appeared just as ridiculous to my friend’s mind as the Koran, the Hedith, and Islam appeared to mine. I could only conclude that both my Muslim friend and I were absolutely correct in our general propositions concerning the religion of the other.

The Risks of Unfounded Beliefs

Unfounded beliefs of Catholics, acting in accordance with Leviticus and pronouncements from the Pope, resulted in the unimaginably cruel and painful deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children during the inquisitions. Unfounded beliefs of 19 faithful Muslims, acting according to reasonable interpretations of Islamic Holy Scriptures, led to the death of thousands of innocent people on September 11, 2001.

The tragic reality of innocent victims from actions based on religious dogma, and enabled by magical thinking, extends through recorded history and continues today. Unfounded beliefs of “Christian Science” adherents, based on the teachings of Mary Baker Eddy, cause them to withhold needed medical treatment in favor of prayer, leading to needless mortality and morbidity among themselves and their innocent children. Unfounded beliefs of older Fundamentalist LDS men (who should know better) justify their statutory rape of teenage girls in the name of their religion.

David Koresh at Waco, Jim Jones at Jonestown, and Marshall Applewhite of Heaven’s Gate in San Diego are but a few of the religious “true believers” who have killed themselves, along with hundreds of gullible and innocent people, because of their unfounded beliefs. But all that has gone before in this regard pales in comparison to that which may yet come.

Armageddon and Magical Thinking

Some of the most dangerous magical thinking imaginable is the widely held belief among many evangelical and fundamentalist Christians that the world as we know it will end in the great battle of Armageddon. Some versions of this myth claim that the earth must thereafter be cleansed by fire before the second coming of Christ. Chillingly analogous scenarios are also central to Islamic “end of the world” myths. Teachings of Mormonism concerning the return of Christ and the ushering in of the millennium have much in common with these evangelical fundamentalist “end of days” and rapture beliefs, and include the cleansing by fire aspect.

Humankind is now faced with the situation wherein two of the great cultures on our planet, Islam and the Western democracies, stand bitterly opposed based on worldview, politics, and religion. (Fortunately, there remains some common economic interest between the two.) Both sides possess nuclear weapons, and at the time of this writing, certain militant leaders on both sides profess belief in the concept of a final decisive battle between the people of God and the enemies of God. Each is certain that they are “the people of God” and that with the help of their God, they would prevail in such a battle. Anyone who is not extremely concerned by this state of affairs does not understand the problem. (Although, I suppose that if one “knew” for a certainty that their side would prevail in the battle, and believed that they themselves would be taken up in the rapture before being consumed by fire, they might be a little more sanguine about this situation than I am.)

Along with many other secularists, I have been very uncomfortable over the last eight years in having the US nuclear weapons release codes in the hands of a President who looks forward to the second coming, and understands (perhaps barely) enough about nuclear weapons to know that they are the best source of globe-cleansing fire available. The potential for innocent victims from the self-fulfillment of such prophesies, due in no small part to unfounded belief and failure to recognize facts, is unimaginable.

In this regard, I believe that one of the greatest dangers now facing us is the potential for unfounded religious belief to lead to “nuclear jihad”. As one who has lived and worked in the Middle East and has also worked in national security (please see end notes), I can assure the reader that some form of nuclear jihad remains a real and growing threat. If and when it happens, you can rest assured that those responsible for the resulting loss of life, destruction of property, and near permanent damage to the environment will perpetrate this evil with full certainty that they are doing the will of their God.

Mormonism and Intellectual Honesty

In contrast to the 19th century when the Mormon Church was founded, one no longer need look to myth or unfounded beliefs in an attempt to understand how the universe operates. In an age of abundant scientific knowledge there is reproducible physical evidence, on which all can agree, regarding how things work. In such a time as this, science-based knowledge and intellectual honesty must trump religious faith in forming a worldview.

Unfortunately, more than in any other Christian denomination I know of, I believe it is impossible to be college educated, intellectually honest and remain a true believing Mormon. The inconsistencies, anachronisms, lack of supporting physical evidence, misrepresentations, alterations, revisions, unacknowledged plagiarism, and sequestered historical documents associated with the Book of Mormon, Book of Abraham, Doctrine and Covenants, and many revelations and pronouncements by Church leaders are nothing short of are staggering. The consequent empty denials and “alternative theories” on the part of Mormon apologists in this regard only make the situation worse.

One who claims to be intellectually honest cannot simply ignore the historical facts and scientific evidence as to invalidity of these books. An educated person understands (or should understand) the principles of falsifiability in determining the validity of a proposition or hypothesis. They should understand the use of Occam’s razor criteria for selecting the best among possible equally plausible hypotheses (please sees end notes). The general hypothesis that these books are the true word of God cannot be falsified because God is not available to confirm or deny the assertion. Such a hypothesis is therefore not scientifically valid.

On the other hand, there is abundant falsifiable evidence that the books are fraudulent. This evidence is valid, reproducible, and has not been shown to be false by appropriate experiment or observation. By these well accepted scientific and logical criteria for determining the validity and truth of a proposition, the hypothesis that these books are as claimed by Joseph Smith can only be rejected (please see end notes).

Much of the direct evidence for factual invalidity in the Judeo-Christian and Muslim scriptures is lost in antiquity. In contrast, abundant evidence that unquestionably invalidates the claims of Joseph Smith and other early Church leaders regarding the Mormon scriptures is currently available for all to see. One only need ask the questions and do the research. While application of Occam’s razor may be helpful in making the final judgment, simple use of simple falsifiability criteria should be more than sufficient (please see end notes).

Mormon Families of Secularists

My wife and I are both lifelong members of the Church. We were married in the Temple and brought three great sons and three lovely daughters into the world. We supported all three sons on missions and sent two of the daughters to BYU. The other four kids graduated from the University of Washington with the boys all earning M.D. or Ph.D. degrees. All have been married in the Temple. For any apologists, or for others who may be interested, additional biographical information is included in the end notes.

My family and I have and have benefited from our membership the Mormon Church. We have also given back to the Church in terms of time, tithing and financial support of missionaries. Whether or not this has been a fair exchange is yet to be determined. Basic principles of ethics, morality and the recognized value of education, as practiced in most of the wards we have attended, have helped me and my wife to raise generally well adjusted, successful, and happy offspring. For the most part, these principles continue to guide the lives of our children and grandchildren. However, these ethical and moral principles are not exclusive to the Mormon Church. They are a product of the advance of civilized society as a whole. In fact on many ethical and moral issues, including those related to woman’s rights and racism, the Church has lagged far behind in recent years.

A Secular Worldview

With age, accumulated knowledge, and a little wisdom, the real work of maintaining the cognitive dissonance of science and Mormon magical thinking has become too much. At some point, one must emerge from the environment of myth and superstition. The alternative is to adopt, develop and profess a rational, logical, fact-based worldview.

Such a secular, fact-based and rational approach to decision making can be counted on to provide the best answers available. This kind of a worldview progresses and improves along with the advances of society in science, art and culture. In contrast, the Mormon magical thinking worldview remains mired in the 19th century. It discourages curiosity, emphasizes ecclesiastical authority, and moves forward at a glacial pace and with great dislocation and distress to its most faithful adherents when changes do come.

I now attend church only on special occasions and at the express request of my wife or children. As a scientist, and as one who has read in the areas of comparative religion and secular histories of the early Mormon Church, it is now extremely difficult to sit through Sunday school or sacrament meeting. The oft repeated myths, misunderstanding and blatant misinformation about known facts and how the world works that one encounters in these meetings now make me very uncomfortable. They also give cause for concern about what my grandchildren are learning in Church.

Out of respect for my active parents, wife, children and grandchildren, I have not requested that my name be removed from the records of the Church. Nonetheless, while I have no desire to hurt my parents and other active family members by resigning, I do have a responsibility to my wife and children, and eventually perhaps to my grandchildren, to let them know what I have learned about science and religion.

I see it as an obligation to explain to them the concept of magical thinking and warn them about the sometimes horrific consequences of acting on belief without evidence. They must understand, as I do, that morality, ethics and an abundant life do not depend on religion. There is an undeniable sense of freedom and a widening of horizons that comes from shedding Mormonism and, I suppose, theistic religion in general.

The Rational Path Forward

As I look down the road, and especially to the future of my children and their children, there is cause for concern. In this age of rapidly expanding mass communication, a global economy, and spreading weapons of mass destruction capability, much depends on the ability of society to recognize, understand, and control magical thinking.

As we have seen over the last eight years, magical thinking (or the failure to think at all) by our national leaders can have dire consequences on the world economy, in the way in which our nation perceives itself, and on our national security. Like many in America and elsewhere, I believe that we have come to a nadir in American history. Unfounded beliefs on the part our leaders and the leaders of our emerging adversaries have been largely responsible.

The clock is ticking. We must realize that the world will not be saved by a messiah. The world will progress, as it always has, by the combined efforts of men and women with a rational and pragmatic approach to leadership and decision making. To be successful, their deliberations and judgment must not impaired by superstition and magical thinking. Considering the increasing availability of advanced weapons to magical thinkers who would misuse them without a second thought, not only is the clock ticking, but the stakes grow higher with each passing day.

[Elsie]

 

MT #2

 

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THE FIRST BOOK OF NEPHI
HIS REIGN AND MINISTRY

CHAPTER 16

 

The wicked take the truth to be hard—Lehi’s sons marry the daughters of Ishmael—The Liahona guides their course in the wilderness—Messages from the Lord are written on the Liahona from time to time—Ishmael dies; his family murmur because of afflictions. Between 600 and 592 B.C.

 

  1 And now it came to pass that after I, Nephi, had made an end of speaking to my brethren, behold they said unto me: Thou hast declared unto us hard things, more than we are able to bear.

  2 And it came to pass that I said unto them that I knew that I had spoken ^ahard things against the wicked, according to the truth; and the righteous have I justified, and testified that they should be lifted up at the last day; wherefore, the ^bguilty taketh the ^ctruth to be hard, for it ^dcutteth them to the very center.

  3 And now my brethren, if ye were righteous and were willing to hearken to the truth, and give heed unto it, that ye might ^awalk uprightly before God, then ye would not murmur because of the truth, and say: Thou speakest hard things against us.

  4 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did exhort my brethren, with all diligence, to keep the commandments of the Lord.

  5 And it came to pass that they did ^ahumble themselves before the Lord; insomuch that I had joy and great hopes of them, that they would walk in the paths of righteousness.

  6 Now, all these things were said and done as my father dwelt in a tent in the ^avalley which he called Lemuel.

  7 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, took one of the ^adaughters of Ishmael to ^bwife; and also, my brethren took of the ^cdaughters of Ishmael to wife; and also ^dZoram took the eldest daughter of Ishmael to wife.

  8 And thus my father had fulfilled all the ^acommandments of the Lord which had been given unto him. And also, I, Nephi, had been blessed of the Lord exceedingly.

  9 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord spake unto my father by night, and commanded him that on the morrow he should take his ^ajourney into the wilderness.

  10 And it came to pass that as my father arose in the morning, and went forth to the tent door, to his great astonishment he beheld upon the ground a round ^aball of curious workmanship; and it was of fine brass. And within the ball were two spindles; and the one ^bpointed the way whither we should go into the wilderness.

  11 And it came to pass that we did gather together whatsoever things we should carry into the wilderness, and all the remainder of our provisions which the Lord had given unto us; and we did take ^aseed of every kind that we might carry into the wilderness.

  12 And it came to pass that we did take our tents and depart into the wilderness, across the river Laman.

  13 And it came to pass that we traveled for the space of four days, nearly a south-southeast direction, and we did pitch our tents again; and we did call the name of the place ^aShazer.

  14 And it came to pass that we did take our bows and our arrows, and go forth into the wilderness to slay food for our families; and after we had slain food for our families we did return again to our families in the wilderness, to the place of Shazer. And we did go forth again in the wilderness, following the same direction, keeping in the most fertile parts of the wilderness, which were in the borders near the ^aRed Sea.

  15 And it came to pass that we did travel for the space of many days, ^aslaying food by the way, with our bows and our arrows and our stones and our slings.

  16 And we did follow the ^adirections of the ball, which led us in the more fertile parts of the wilderness.

  17 And after we had traveled for the space of many days, we did pitch our tents for the space of a time, that we might again rest ourselves and obtain food for our families.

  18 And it came to pass that as I, Nephi, went forth to slay food, behold, I did break my bow, which was made of fine ^asteel; and after I did break my bow, behold, my brethren were angry with me because of the loss of my bow, for we did obtain no food.

  19 And it came to pass that we did return without food to our families, and being much fatigued, because of their journeying, they did suffer much for the want of food.

  20 And it came to pass that Laman and Lemuel and the sons of Ishmael did begin to murmur exceedingly, because of their sufferings and afflictions in the wilderness; and also my father began to murmur against the Lord his God; yea, and they were all exceedingly sorrowful, even that they did ^amurmur against the Lord.

  21 Now it came to pass that I, Nephi, having been afflicted with my brethren because of the loss of my bow, and their bows having lost their ^asprings, it began to be exceedingly difficult, yea, insomuch that we could obtain no food.

  22 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did speak much unto my brethren, because they had hardened their hearts again, even unto ^acomplaining against the Lord their God.

  23 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did ^amake out of wood a bow, and out of a straight stick, an arrow; wherefore, I did arm myself with a bow and an arrow, with a sling and with stones. And I said unto my ^bfather: Whither shall I go to obtain food?

  24 And it came to pass that he did ^ainquire of the Lord, for they had ^bhumbled themselves because of my words; for I did say many things unto them in the energy of my soul.

  25 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord came unto my father; and he was truly ^achastened because of his murmuring against the Lord, insomuch that he was brought down into the depths of sorrow.

  26 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord said unto him: Look upon the ball, and behold the things which are written.

  27 And it came to pass that when my father beheld the things which were ^awritten upon the ball, he did fear and tremble exceedingly, and also my brethren and the sons of Ishmael and our wives.

  28 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the pointers which were in the ball, that they did work according to the ^afaith and diligence and heed which we did give unto them.

  29 And there was also written upon them a new writing, which was plain to be read, which did give us ^aunderstanding concerning the ways of the Lord; and it was written and changed from time to time, according to the faith and diligence which we gave unto it. And thus we see that by ^bsmall means the Lord can bring about great things.

  30 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did go forth up into the top of the mountain, according to the ^adirections which were given upon the ball.

  31 And it came to pass that I did slay wild ^abeasts, insomuch that I did obtain food for our families.

  32 And it came to pass that I did return to our tents, bearing the beasts which I had slain; and now when they beheld that I had obtained ^afood, how great was their joy! And it came to pass that they did humble themselves before the Lord, and did give thanks unto him.

  33 And it came to pass that we did again take our journey, traveling nearly the same course as in the beginning; and after we had traveled for the space of many days we did pitch our tents again, that we might tarry for the space of a time.

  34 And it came to pass that ^aIshmael died, and was buried in the place which was called ^bNahom.

  35 And it came to pass that the daughters of Ishmael did ^amourn exceedingly, because of the loss of their father, and because of their ^bafflictions in the wilderness; and they did ^cmurmur against my father, because he had brought them out of the land of Jerusalem, saying: Our father is dead; yea, and we have wandered much in the wilderness, and we have suffered much affliction, hunger, thirst, and fatigue; and after all these sufferings we must perish in the wilderness with hunger.

  36 And thus they did murmur against my father, and also against me; and they were desirous to ^areturn again to Jerusalem.

  37 And Laman said unto Lemuel and also unto the sons of Ishmael: Behold, let us ^aslay our father, and also our brother Nephi, who has taken it upon him to be our ^bruler and our teacher, who are his elder brethren.

  38 Now, he says that the Lord has talked with him, and also that ^aangels have ministered unto him. But behold, we know that he lies unto us; and he tells us these things, and he worketh many things by his cunning arts, that he may deceive our eyes, thinking, perhaps, that he may lead us away into some strange wilderness; and after he has led us away, he has thought to make himself a king and a ruler over us, that he may do with us according to his will and pleasure. And after this manner did my brother Laman ^bstir up their hearts to ^canger.

  39 And it came to pass that the Lord was with us, yea, even the voice of the Lord came and did speak many words unto them, and did ^achasten them exceedingly; and after they were chastened by the voice of the Lord they did turn away their anger, and did repent of their sins, insomuch that the Lord did bless us again with food, that we did not perish.

 

The Official Scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
© 2010 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.
Rights and use information. Privacy policy.

 

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[Elsie]

 

MT #3

 

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A FACSIMILE FROM
THE BOOK OF ABRAHAM
No. 1

EXPLANATION

Fig. 1. The Angel of the Lord.

Fig. 2. Abraham fastened upon an altar.

Fig. 3. The idolatrous priest of Elkenah attempting to offer up Abraham as a sacrifice.

Fig. 4. The altar for sacrifice by the idolatrous priests, standing before the gods of Elkenah, Libnah, Mahmackrah, Korash, and Pharaoh.

Fig. 5. The idolatrous god of Elkenah.

Fig. 6. The idolatrous god of Libnah.

Fig. 7. The idolatrous god of Mahmackrah.

Fig. 8. The idolatrous god of Korash.

Fig. 9. The idolatrous god of Pharaoh.

Fig. 10. Abraham in Egypt.

Fig. 11. Designed to represent the pillars of heaven, as understood by the Egyptians.

Fig. 12. Raukeeyang, signifying expanse, or the firmament over our heads; but in this case, in relation to this subject, the Egyptians meant it to signify Shaumau, to be high, or the heavens, answering to the Hebrew word, Shaumahyeem.

 

The Official Scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
© 2010 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.
Rights and use information. Privacy policy.

[Elsie]

It is the kind of thinking rampant in Mormon culture, wherein otherwise intelligent and often well educated people are willing to proclaim simultaneous believe in diametrically opposed and mutually exclusive concepts such as creation and evolution.

Norm, you may want to jump in here; as it looks to be right up your alley.

[Elsie]

I sure hope that it HASN'T 'come to pass' that your EYES have glazed over!

[Tennessee Nana]

In an 1885 interview, Zenas H. Gurley, then the editor of the RLDS Saints Herald, asked Whitmer if Joseph had used his "Peep stone" to do the translation. Whitmer replied: "... he used a stone called a "Seers stone," the "Interpreters" having been taken away from him because of transgression

_______________________________________________

OK So what was Joey Smiths "transgression ???

[Elsie]

Joseph Smith was ahead of the times!!

 

 

 

 

Spirit / Automatic Writing

Automatic or spirit writing is the practice of writing while channeling messages from the spirit realm.  Those on the Other Side are sometimes strong enough to "push" textual messages across the veil and those who are able to relax enough to take up the pen in a spirit writing session will have interesting messages come through.  

Automatic writing sessions will often leave the psychic exhausted.  It takes great effort to remain still while spirit energies literally take over strongly enough to send messages through the brain of the channel.

It may have its down side, but spirit writing can yield some of the finest works and bodies of information.  It allows for great detail if desired and so long as the psychic can keep the same momentum as the spirits, the message system will be successful.

To try automatic writing, sit in a quiet place, with a large pad of paper in front of you and a pencil or pen in your hand.  Relax completely and breathe, letting stress drift away.  Try not to focus on anything in particular.  Let your thoughts drift until they are indeed random.  Begin writing if the urge strikes you.  Many beginners feel the spirit pull as an urge to put pen to paper.  You can begin by doing circles (a spiral) along your page.  At times this can develop into words and messages.

This practice can bring out messages and information that otherwise may not get channeled, but caution is always wise when dealing with the other side and energy that isn't familiar to you.

 

 

 

(From --->  http://www.psychicpen.com/spirit_writing.html  )

[Paragon Defender]

Undecided readers,

As an ex-Mormon basher, I invite everyone to read all of the multitude of Anti-Mormon attack threads on this board and then do some research on your own from more than one side of the “issues”.

Well written propaganda is still propaganda. Some, like the starter of this thread, are better written than others.

Is what all these Mormon attack squad people parrot day in and and day out on these boards true? Don’t take their word for it. Find out for yourself. Put forth some effort. You do want the truth right? Prove it.

Read both sides! Talk to both sides! Not just mine. Not just theirs. Make up your own mind.

Here’s a few links to get your started from a different viewpoint. The vast majority of the issues brought up can be found and addressed at http://www.fairlds.org/ I have found but here’s more.

http://scriptures.lds.org/
http://www.lds.org
http://www.fairlds.org/
http://www.mormonwiki.com/Main_Page
http://www.lightplanet.com/response/index.html
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDS_Intro.shtml
http://www.answeringantimormons.com/index.htm
http://promormon.blogspot.com/

[Tennessee Nana]

but if not written correctly it remained until corrected, so that the translation was just as it was engraven on the plates, precisely in the language then used." (Edward Stevenson, "One of the Three Witnesses," ___________________________________________

But if he never looked at the "plates" how did Edward Steveson know this to be true ??? How did he know what language was on the "plates" How did he know what language was being used on the "platees" and in the hat ??? Nobody ever saw them I thought the language on the "playtes" and the language in the hat and on the paper were suppose to be different, "translated" ??? Now instead of English, one word at a time "and" "it" "came" "to" "pass" Joey Smithj saw "reformed Egyptian" ??? Then why didnt he just read it out as "reformed Egyptian" ??? He was SOOOOOOOOOO smart... A translator would know both languages well.. Joey Smith barely knew English let alone a language that was never in existance..

[magritte]

His transgression:

"he (Smith) had allowed Martin Harris to carry away the 116 pages of Ms [manuscript] of the Book of Mormon"

You might as well cut&paste the rest of the interview. The answer is in the next sentence...magritte

[Tennessee Nana]

but if not written correctly it remained until corrected, so that the translation was just as it was engraven on the plates, precisely in the language then used." (Edward Stevenson, "One of the Three Witnesses," ___________________________________________

But if he never looked at the "plates" how did Edward Steveson know this to be true ???

How did he know what language was on the "plates"

How did he know what language was being used on the "platees" and in the hat ???

Nobody ever saw them

I thought the language on the "playtes" and the language in the hat and on the paper were suppose to be different, "translated" ???

Now instead of English, one word at a time "and" "it" "came" "to" "pass" Joey Smithj saw "reformed Egyptian" ???

Then why didnt he just read it out as "reformed Egyptian" ???

He was SOOOOOOOOOO smart...

A translator would know both languages well..

Joey Smith barely knew English let alone a language that was never in existance..

[Normandy]

Hi Elsie,

Thanks for the ping.

No man or woman can fully understand the ways of God. I certainly don’t and won’t claim to.

However, God can communicate with us and teach us certain things on a level we can understand - just as a parent teaches a little child.

My faith in God, in Jesus Christ and in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints is based on what I have personally experienced.

I have heard all the objections to my faith and seen all the passionate opposition which is fired in a seemingly never ending stream against Mormonism — yet I am content and satisfied in my faith —

Because I know for myself — from personal experience — that it is true.

[Tennessee Nana]

Oh OK

“... he used a stone called a “Seers stone,” the “Interpreters” having been taken away from him because of transgression. The “Interpreters” were taken from Joseph after he allowed Martin Harris to carry away the 116 pages of Ms [manuscript] of the Book of Mormon as a punishment, but he was allowed to go on and translate by use of a “Seers stone” which he had, and which he placed in a hat into which he buried his face, stating to me and others that the original character appeared upon parchment and under it the translation in English.”

But we know what really happened...

[expatguy]

Morons are irrational ... so whats the point?

[Tennessee Nana]

You might as well cut&paste the rest of the interview. The answer is in the next sentence...magritte
___________________________________________

Heres an answer in another paragraph

Whats interesting about this one is its the only one that is a signed affidavit...

“The manner in which he pretended to read and interpret was the same manner as when he looked for the money-diggers, with the stone in his hat, while the book of plates were at the same time hid in the woods.”
-—Isaac Hale (Emma Smith’s father’s) affidavit, 1834.

[svcw]

As an example:

From promormon.blogspot.com:

It is true that Mormons have another Jesus. We have Jesus the Son of God, the Biblical Jesus.

From the lds prophet Hinckley:

“President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints ‘do not believe in the traditional Christ. No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak.’ ” —LDS Church News, June 20, 1998, p. 7

Thanks PD for the links.

[Elsie]

Well written propaganda is still propaganda.

So is POORLY written stuff!

http://www.fairlds.org/

(Be SURE to check out the DISCLAIMER...)

FAIR is not owned, controlled by or affiliated with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. All research and opinions provided on this site are the sole responsibility of FAIR, and should not be interpreted as official statements of LDS doctrine, belief or practice.

[Elsie]

"he (Smith) had allowed Martin Harris to carry away the 116 pages of Ms [manuscript] of the Book of Mormon"

ALLOWED?

For what REASON?

[Elsie]

Because I know for myself — from personal experience — that it is true.

What EXPERIENCES did you have that CONFIRMED the BELIEF that you have?

[Elsie]

“The manner in which he pretended to read and interpret was the same manner as when he looked for the money-diggers, with the stone in his hat, while the book of plates were at the same time hid in the woods.”

-—Isaac Hale (Emma Smith’s father’s) affidavit, 1834.

DON'T listen to HIM!!

Emma's dad never DID like me and he's LYING now!!!"

--News_From_The_Grave(Joseph Smith)

[SZonian]

Did you even read the article before you posted this worthless and vacuous tripe of yours?

It was written by a mormon.

So, to all you who may have read PD’s cut and paste post, it’s mormon “propaganda” because PD doesn’t agree with the premise of the writer.

I note yet again, PD has yet to address any of the content or any of the material posted.

I’ll let you all decide for yourselves how a TBM has decided to warn his fellow mormons about the dangers of believing the fanciful and magical claims of mormonism.

As a recovering ex-mormon, all I did was relate my thoughts on the matter and concur with what the writer is going through.

That’s some “propaganda”.

Oh, and the links provided by PD, the material is controlled by apologists and the LdS church.

So if you’re looking for unbiased opinions or materials, I’m sure you’ll find it there. /s