Posted on 05/30/2010 1:44:59 AM PDT by TwoLegsGood
In this video, David Wilkerson famous Pastor of the Times Square Church in NYC, weeps openly at a meeting in Russia over the counterfeits and mocking spirits mistaken for the Holy Spirit in NAR, Toronto Blessing, Emergent Church, Lakeland, IHOP, Wagner Institute, former Vineyard church movements today.
I have seen the slaughtered sheep of these movements. It is a terrible thing to misrepresent a Holy God. Bless Pastor Wilkerson
The issue in America is idolatry, having other gods before the Lord. The vast majority of American Christians actually worship first at the temple of Caesar, rendering unto Caesar something far more than a pinch of incense. We consider it normal to (sur)render unto Caesar that which is God's -- our own children. We willingly consecrate their hearts, minds, and souls to indoctrination in the anti-Christian religion of secular humanism five days a week, for nine months a year -- then we wonder why they jump ship.
The numbers are in, the evidence is well-nigh irrefutable:
Then wonder why the sense of God's approval on their lives has faded.
And become gullible prey for charlatans who promise to bring the feeling back again.
You are so right, especially about idolatry, which is a difficult sin to understand in the USA today. I had to fight my way through many “high class” Ivy League schools with not a lot of faith but managed somehow. What scares me is the deception of the world is now full blown in the church.
Thank You for sharing this.
Ya know I would have loved to have kept my child in Christian schools but I didn’t have 6-8,000 dollars a year extra in my budget. Then when it came to college I just didn’t have the 40K compared to 10K state University to even have a choice so you best be careful saying we Christian parents threw our kids to the lions when we better condemn the whole body for not kicking in the money to make Christian schools affordable to everyone.
The problem is that the teachers have to be paid a living wage. And schools that are not connected to a specific parish/congregation have to be self-sufficient.
One model that was recently established around here was a model from a relatively new school called Don Bosco Cristo Rey High School. This school has a work-study program where students spend a day of the week working in local businesses. It gives the kids real job experience (which is helpful to them later on) while the salaries they earn help defray the majority of their school expenses. In that way, the students get a good Christian education for a very affordable price ($500 - $2500 per year, as opposed to >$10,000 per year for other schools) and local employers get needed assistance from responsible kids who want to work and learn, all for cheaper than they could hire full time employees.
Yes, Christian schools are expensive. How about homeschooling?
Varying degrees of poor parenting caused REACTIVE ATTACHMENT DISORDER—particularly at the hand of absent, cold, distant, harsh, abusive fathers—
HAS EVEN A MORE HORRID AND MORE DEVASTATING IMPACT ON CHILDREN AS ADULTS
than the outrageous destructiveness of public schools.
Sounds like a great option.
I don’t know how this turned into a discussion on schooling.
The issue at hand is spiritual counterfeits who peddle Holy Spirit experiences as some sort of cosmic roller coaster ride.
People are going to church for the charismatic experience and putting in second place good, sound, Bible study.
People like Copeland, Hagin, Dollar, Hinn, and Price have a lot to answer for before the Throne.
This is old news and video, but worth posting on a Sunday. I don’t think it’s as big a problem as it was, but that’s a guess.
Between this and the Social Justice movement among mainstream denominations, the Church at large is in a real mess.
I know Wilkerson went after those Prosperity and Word of Faith liars a while back, you know that these deceptions morphed into the NAR apostasy? Hagin Hinn and Copeland nourished the deceptions of Todd Bentley Paul Cain Bob Jones William Branham etc. It is a much more deceptive thing happening now, more refined because these NAR leaders basically refuse any Cessationists criticisms of them — like Hank Hanegraff — and this makes it more dangerous because they are starting to perform false signs and wonders.
Traditionally, evangelicals who do not believe in the gifts opposed this movement strongly but failed to discern that their manifestations were actually real... real evidence of demons.
For example, most in the NAR get “drunk in the spirit”. Try to criticize this practice and you will get an earful as to how Peter was drunk at Pentecost... even if you protest that this is what the mockers said, and that Peter wasn't flopping around on the ground like a drunken beast.
Then if you try to point out that, actually, the Bible says that God does “get people drunk but not with wine” right before He sends judgment on them — you may get somewhere with them. There whole movement depends upon people criticizing their shaking, barking, drunken manifestations as being fake — rather than anyone realizing that God actually sends “strong delusion” and will allow for demonic manifestations, like how He sent a deluding evil spirit on King Ahab — as a matter of judgment on a person.
It's a lot to deal with, but the Bible has the key if one is really looks to be a Berean about it all.
We later discovered that most teachers at this "academy" weren't certified and many had no degree of any kind. The headmaster had no experience in education. He was a local businessman. He was enrolling his friends' kids on scholarship while the rest of us paid full tuition. This may have been ostensibly a Christian school, but the teachers and administrators were flat out lousy at their jobs and did not act in accordance with the Scriptures.
We moved my daughter to the local public school where she excelled in subjects in which she had previously described herself as "stupid".
All this to say that Christian schools are not necessarily the answer. Unfortunately, I now believe that some of them cynically apply the description "Christian" in order to enroll believers' children, but then provide an inadequate education. They are aware that their teachers and curriculum are sub-standard, but excuse their poor quality by claiming that they are doing the Lord's work.
Kansas City Prophets ping
You wrote:
“They are aware that their teachers and curriculum are sub-standard, but excuse their poor quality by claiming that they are doing the Lord’s work.”
You might be right. Many people believe all it takes is having a loyal core of Christians serving as teachers. In reality you have to have people who are SUITED TO BE teachers. That doesn’t mean they have to be certified by the state, but they at the very least shouldn’t be cruel, derisive and lazy.
David Wilkerson is an awesome man of God, but he is all wet on this one.
This stuff is real, and it is good.
People are getting healed, getting demons cast out of them, and finding real pleasure and deliverance, as they begin to understand and really experience how much God really delights in them.
Let me ask you who are offended at that idea that God is happy over His children: Do you think you might laugh maniacally and prance around the room if you found a couple million dollars in gold and jewels? Or even if your favorite football team won the big game?
How crazy do you think you would be acting if it turned out that Obama really WAS a Kenyan, and got impeached and deported?
And yet, you want me to be restrained and sober when I really begin to experience the love of God in my emotions, and it becomes real to me.
No way. This stuff is from God.... Most the world is in blatant rebellion against Him, and is headed to eternal destruction.... and you guys say He doesn’t prance around and joyfully sing over me, who has passed from death into life? He does!
The Bible declares this explicitly.. that He rejoices over me with singing, and that I am His righteous one in whom is ALL His delight....
You guys are fighting God, not man.
However, what Wilkerson is weeping over and what others have discerned about the “spiritual manifestations” of the NAR is
1. The Holy Spirit is a spirit of self control. This is the word of God and God cannot contradict His word. Therefore the Holy Spirit would never cause someone to shake uncontrollably, bark, spin, or hiccup “in the spirit” as if drunk “on His presence” as I have seen ad nauseum in the NAR.
2. However, Satan does love to mock, demean and destroy the integrity of God's people. Giggling when one should be in holy awe, growling when one should be preaching the Word to the dying, etc., is a trick of the trickster.
I believe the manifestations of these in the NAR and other cult “Christians” are absolutely real.
They are a sign of God's impending judgment upon them.
I can already give you a list of objections to this Berean deconstruction of mine...
1. Anyone who squelches this counterfeit movement has “a religious spirit” or is a “heresy hound” or is “living by the logos instead of the rhema” or is “trying to put God in a box...” Or they are “Jezebel” or they “don't believe the gifts are for today” or they don't understand “the importance of being in His presence” or they don't understand this new “alignment” or we are living in the “Old wine instead of the New Wine of the New Wine” etc.
I'm bored just listing these phony objections. NAR manifestations are actually real. They are just not from God. This is why NAR leaders never think to “test the spirits” as they are told to do by the Word of God as the Bereans did. They are afraid of what they might find out... that they are listening to familiar spirits of Hell.
Satan knows the Bible very well. And he also performs signs and wonders. This is why Jesus tells us not to seek after a sign, that only a wicked generation will do so. Instead, we are to be “pruned by His word”.
We are not ‘pruned by His presence” either.
I think the worst lying deception I have heard in NAR churches is... get this...
“Minds shut, spirits open!”
Yes, they preach this. It is the mocking insanity of Hell.
Also, glossolalia is a phenomenon found the world over in other religions than Christianity.
With the NAR, however, one does need to be almost an intellectual charismatic with a full understanding of church history in order to pull down these frauds. Anyone who does not believe the gifts are for today has a built in blindness that will prevent them from proper discernment of their strange manifestations. Anyone in doubt should read the online book by Jesse Penn Lewis who was there at the "Welch Revival" a hundred years ago and wrote about the demonic infestations that happened to some of these Pentecostals in her famous book "War On The Saints" 1912. It takes discerning charismatics to discern the frauds of charismania.
There is an archdiocese in Nebraska (I think) where the Archbishop has made it a priority that ALL children who want to be in the Catholic schools can attend, free. He has encouraged those who have already received a Catholic education to donate to this cause. I talked to one of the Principals there — it is just a wonderful program.
This is how the Catholic schools started; it would be terrific if they could be so again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMRuj4ikiKg
Video of an NAR “Prophetess” compared to pagan demonic rituals.
Note that what she says or “prophecies” is always some sort of false, flattering or deceptive word. NAR people never think to put their prophesies to the test of Scripture, either.
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