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Doctrine . . . Not [LDS Atheology]
By Common Consent ^ | January 18, 2007 | Chris Kimball

Posted on 05/12/2010 6:53:06 PM PDT by delacoert

Mormonism is essentially a sacramental religion, defined by ordinance and ritual more than doctrine or belief. Any effort to define “Mormon doctrine” is fraught with difficulty and virtually certain of error, although one might venture that the “belief” portion of the temple recommend interview defines doctrine.[1] As Edward Kimball says, “Church history shows that General Authorities frequently declare, clarify, refine, and qualify interpretations of doctrine, but these statements generally constitute only informed opinion.”[2]

On the other hand, there are numerous statements, writings and beliefs that have been put forward as doctrine, or believed as doctrine, at one time or by some people, that we can be fairly confident are not doctrine. We have somewhat more confidence about what is not doctrine than what is.

Only half-jokingly, one might start with the obvious-to-most-adult-Mormons statement that your high school seminary teacher was not a reliable source of doctrine.

So what do we know is not doctrine? Here is a short collection of ideas about “doctrines” we might reject, meant to invite comment and addendum. These are presented in no particular order, although the inspiration for this investigation is chapter 11 of Lengthen Your Stride, which depicts Spencer W. Kimball’s contributions to the discussion of doctrine and even more “not” doctrine.

A. Neither ‘Man, His Origin and Destiny’ by Elder Joseph Fielding Smith, nor ‘Mormon Doctrine’ by Elder Bruce R. McConkie, is an official publication of the Church.[3]

B. Despite numerous requests (and positions stated or implied in the publications noted in A above), the Church has never taken a definitive position on the matter of organic evolution.

C. “We denounce [the Adam-God Theory] and hope that everyone will be cautioned against this and other kinds of false doctrine.”[4]

D. Other churches are not all wrong. “The great religious leaders of the world such as Mohammed, Confucius, and the Reformers, as well as philosophers including Socrates, Plato, and others, received a portion of God’s light. Moral truths were given to them by God to enlighten whole nations and to bring a higher level of understanding to individuals.”[5]

E. References to blood atonement (leaving aside the atonement of Christ), if understood as applying to modern circumstances, ‘do not . . . represent the official stand of the Church.’[6]

F. Elder McConkie’s talk at BYU on “The Seven Deadly Heresies” (including acceptance of organic evolution, a belief that God progresses in knowledge, and the idea that progression from kingdom to kingdom in the afterlife is possible) were Elder McConkie’s personal views and not doctrine.[7]

G. The Joseph Smith Translation is “not the official Bible of the Church.” It is “interesting,” a “fruitful source,” and an “invaluable aid to biblical interpretation and understanding.”[8]

H. Church policy set in 1967 allowing only Melchizedek or Aaronic Priesthood holders to pray in sacrament meetings had no scriptural basis and should be abandoned.[9]

I. The practice of polygamy after 1890 is not in accord with the teachings of the Church.[10]

J. There is no ban on priesthood ordination of Black men after 1978.[11]

K. There is no authoritative or doctrinal explanation why the ordination of Black men was not allowed before 1978.

L. There is not an absolute prohibition on abortion.[12]

M. The Lectures on Faith are not doctrine.[13]

[1] In modern form the belief questions are: “(1) Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost? (2) Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer? (3) Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days? (4) Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?” These four questions are, of course, not wholly self-defining and lend themselves to a number of interpretations.
[2] Lengthen Your Stride, The Presidency of Spencer W. Kimball, by Edward Kimball (Deseret Book 2005), at page 95.
[3] Letters and journal entries from President David O. McKay in 1959 and 1960, among other sources.
[4] Spencer W. Kimball at October General Conference in 1976.
[5] Statement by the First Presidency on February 15, 1978.
[6] Bruce R. McConkie, in 1977, responding to a question at the request of the First Presidency.
[7] Lengthen Your Stride at page 101 and clarification in the version published in 1980 BYU Speeches of the Year, changing “we” to “I” and saying “my reasoning causes me to conclude.”
[8] Quotes from the dictionary included in the LDS edition of the Bible.
[9] Priesthood Bulletin 3, no. 3 (July/August 1967).
[10] Official Declaration 1.
[11] Official Declaration 2.
[12] General Handbook of Instructions, which describes certain exceptions where abortion could be the better choice.
[13] Not included in the 1979 and 1981 editions of the standard works. Ed Kimball notes in Lengthen Your Stride that inclusion was proposed at that time but not approved, and that “Several studies had recently concluded that Sidney Rigdon was the principal author of the lectures.”


TOPICS: Other non-Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: beck; glennbeck; inman; lds; mormomism; mormon; needanotherhobby
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To: mamelukesabre
They’re still tea totalers aren’t they?

I think tea is a no-no, too.

21 posted on 05/12/2010 10:16:12 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
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To: delacoert
 “Church history shows that General Authorities frequently declare, clarify, refine, and qualify interpretations of doctrine, but these statements generally constitute only informed opinion.”[2]
 
Edward Kimball

22 posted on 05/13/2010 4:50:18 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: mamelukesabre
Item G is interesting to me. What is meant by the “joe smith translation”?

 

How about a sample??
 




Added stuff...                                                                                                    Changed stuff...                        Rearranged stuff...                                                                    Removed stuff...

JOSEPH SMITH—MATTHEW
An extract from the translation of the Bible as revealed to Joseph Smith the Prophet in 1831: Matthew 23: 39 and chapter 24.
Jesus foretells the impending destruction of Jerusalem—He also discourses on the second coming of the Son of Man, and the destruction of the wicked.
 
  1 aFor I say unto you, that ye shall not see me henceforth and know that I am he of whom it is written by the prophets, until ye shall say: Blessed is he who bcometh in the name of the Lord, in the clouds of heaven, and all the holy angels with him. Then understood his disciples that he should come again on the earth, after that he was glorified and ccrowned on the right hand of God.
  2 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple; and his disciples came to him, for to ahear him, saying: Master, show us concerning the buildings of the temple, as thou hast said—They shall be thrown down, and left unto you desolate.
  3 And Jesus said unto them: See ye not all these things, and do ye not understand them? Verily I say unto you, there shall not be left here, upon this temple, one astone upon another that shall not be thrown down.
  4 And Jesus left them, and went upon the Mount of Olives. And as he sat upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying: Tell us when shall these things be which thou hast said concerning the destruction of the temple, and the Jews; and what is the asign of thy bcoming, and of the cend of the world, or the destruction of the dwicked, which is the end of the world?
  5 And Jesus answered, and said unto them: Take heed that no man deceive you;
  6 For many shall come in my name, saying—I am aChrist—and shall deceive many;
  7 Then shall they deliver you up to be aafflicted, and shall kill you, and ye shall be bhated of all nations, for my name’s sake;
  8 And then shall many be aoffended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another;
  9 And many afalse prophets shall arise, and shall deceive many;
  10 And because iniquity shall abound, the alove of many shall wax cold;
  11 But he that remaineth asteadfast and is not overcome, the same shall be saved.
  12 When you, therefore, shall see the aabomination of bdesolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, concerning the destruction of cJerusalem, then you shall stand in the dholy place; whoso readeth let him understand.
  13 Then let them who are in Judea flee into the amountains;
  14 Let him who is on the housetop flee, and not return to take anything out of his house;
  15 Neither let him who is in the field return back to take his clothes;
  16 And wo unto them that are with achild, and unto them that give suck in those days;
  17 Therefore, pray ye the Lord that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day;
  18 For then, in those days, shall be great atribulation on the bJews, and upon the inhabitants of cJerusalem, such as was not before sent upon Israel, of God, since the beginning of their kingdom until this time; no, nor ever shall be sent again upon Israel.
  19 All things which have befallen them are only the beginning of the sorrows which shall come upon them.
  20 And except those days should be shortened, there should none of their flesh be asaved; but for the elect’s sake, according to the bcovenant, those days shall be shortened.
  21 Behold, these things I have spoken unto you concerning the Jews; and again, after the tribulation of those days which shall come upon Jerusalem, if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there, believe him not;
  22 For in those days there shall also arise false aChrists, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch, that, if possible, they shall deceive the very elect, who are the elect according to the covenant.
  23 Behold, I speak these things unto you for the aelect’s sake; and you also shall hear of bwars, and rumors of wars; see that ye be not troubled, for all I have told you must come to pass; but the end is not yet.
  24 Behold, I have told you before;
  25 Wherefore, if they shall say unto you: Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: Behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not;
  26 For as the light of the morning cometh out of the aeast, and shineth even unto the west, and covereth the whole earth, so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.
  27 And now I show unto you a parable. Behold, wheresoever the acarcass is, there will the eagles be bgathered together; so likewise shall mine elect be gathered from the four quarters of the earth.
  28 And they shall hear of wars, and rumors of wars.
  29 Behold I speak for mine elect’s sake; for nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; there shall be afamines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
  30 And again, because iniquity shall abound, the love of men shall wax acold; but he that shall not be overcome, the same shall be saved.
  31 And again, this aGospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world, for a witness unto all bnations, and then shall the end come, or the destruction of the wicked;
  32 And again shall the aabomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, be fulfilled.
  33 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the asun shall be bdarkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the cstars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
  34 Verily, I say unto you, this ageneration, in which these things shall be shown forth, shall not pass away until all I have told you shall be fulfilled.
  35 Although, the days will come, that heaven and earth shall pass away; yet my awords shall not pass away, but all shall be fulfilled.
  36 And, as I said before, after the atribulation of those days, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken, then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven, and then shall all the tribes of the earth bmourn; and they shall see the cSon of Man dcoming in the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory;
  37 And whoso atreasureth up my word, shall not be deceived, for the Son of Man shall bcome, and he shall send his cangels before him with the great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together the dremainder of his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
  38 Now learn a parable of the afig-tree—When its branches are yet tender, and it begins to put forth leaves, you know that summer is nigh at hand;
  39 So likewise, mine elect, when they shall see all these things, they shall know that he is near, even at the doors;
  40 But of that day, and hour, no one aknoweth; no, not the angels of God in heaven, but my Father only.
  41 But as it was in the days of aNoah, so it shall be also at the coming of the Son of Man;
  42 For it shall be with them, as it was in the days which were before the aflood; for until the day that Noah entered into the ark they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage;
  43 And aknew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.
  44 Then shall be fulfilled that which is written, that in the alast days, two shall be in the field, the one shall be taken, and the other bleft;
  45 Two shall be grinding at the mill, the one shall be taken, and the other left;
  46 And what I say unto one, I say unto all men; awatch, therefore, for you know not at what hour your Lord doth come.
  47 But know this, if the good man of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to have been broken up, but would have been ready.
  48 Therefore be ye also aready, for in such an hour as ye think not, the Son of Man cometh.
  49 Who, then, is a afaithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
  50 Blessed is that aservant whom his lord, when he cometh, shall find so doing; and verily I say unto you, he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
  51 But if that evil servant shall say in his heart: My lord adelayeth his coming,
  52 And shall begin to smite his fellow-servants, and to eat and drink with the drunken,
  53 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
  54 And shall cut him asunder, and shall appoint him his portion with the hypocrites; there shall be weeping and agnashing of teeth.
  55 And thus cometh the aend of the wicked, according to the prophecy of Moses, saying: They shall be cut off from among the people; but the end of the earth is not yet, but by and by.

KJV Matthew 23:38-39  24:1-51
 
 
 
 
 
 39.  For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
 

 1.  And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
 2.  And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
 3.  And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
 4.  And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
 5.  For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
 6.  And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
 7.  For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
 8.  All these are the beginning of sorrows.
 9.  Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
 10.  And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
 11.  And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
 12.  And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
 13.  But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
 14.  And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
 15.  When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
 16.  Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
 17.  Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
 18.  Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
 19.  And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
 20.  But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
 21.  For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
 22.  And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
 23.  Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
 24.  For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
 25.  Behold, I have told you before.
 26.  Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
 27.  For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
 28.  For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
 29.  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
 30.  And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
 31.  And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
 32.  Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
 33.  So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
 34.  Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
 35.  Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
 36.  But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
 37.  But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
 38.  For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

 39.  And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
 40.  Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
 41.  Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
 42.  Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
 43.  But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
 44.  Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
 45.  Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
 46.  Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
 47.  Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
 48.  But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
 49.  And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
 50.  The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
  51.  And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
 
 
 
 
King James Version of the Holy Bible
Public domain
 
 

23 posted on 05/13/2010 5:00:57 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: mamelukesabre
So...how much of joseph smith’s original religion do present day mormons actually follow?

We'd have to define 'original' first.

The Temple Rites® has been changed from the old words they used to use.

(BTW; those rites CANNOT be found in ANY of their scripture.)

24 posted on 05/13/2010 5:03:06 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: mamelukesabre
I thought it was talking about the book of mormon(mormon bible)...as in mormons no longer consider the book of mormon to be their bible.

Actuallty; the BoM is PART of their 'Standard Works'.

As 'scripture' there is hardly ANYTHING in it that theology-wise could be considered very far from orthodox Christianity.

It's the OTHER things that are part of the SW that contain most of MORMONism.

25 posted on 05/13/2010 5:05:43 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: svcw
 
Apparently the FLDS follow what Joseph Smith taught to the letter.
 
At least THEY are not AFRAID of the U.S. Government!
 
 



 
The Mormon church Organization; based in Salt Lake City, does not practice Polygamy any more.
They decided to stop the practice for fear of losing all their worldly goods.
It was banned in 1890!.
  


 
 
 
 
OFFICIAL DECLARATION—1

To Whom It May Concern:

Press dispatches having been sent for political purposes, from Salt Lake City, which have been widely published, to the effect that the Utah Commission, in their recent report to the Secretary of the Interior, allege that plural marriages are still being solemnized and that forty or more such marriages have been contracted in Utah since last June or during the past year, also that in public discourses the leaders of the Church have taught, encouraged and urged the continuance of the practice of polygamy

I, therefore, as President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, do hereby, in the most solemn manner, declare that these charges are false. We are not teaching polygamy or plural marriage, nor permitting any person to enter into its practice, and I deny that either forty or any other number of plural marriages have during that period been solemnized in our Temples or in any other place in the Territory.

One case has been reported, in which the parties allege that the marriage was performed in the Endowment House, in Salt Lake City, in the Spring of 1889, but I have not been able to learn who performed the ceremony; whatever was done in this matter was without my knowledge. In consequence of this alleged occurrence the Endowment House was, by my instructions, taken down without delay.

Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriages, which laws have been pronounced constitutional by the court of last resort, I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws, and to use my influence with the members of the Church over which I preside to have them do likewise.

There is nothing in my teachings to the Church or in those of my associates, during the time specified, which can be reasonably construed to inculcate or encourage polygamy; and when any Elder of the Church has used language which appeared to convey any such teaching, he has been promptly reproved. And I now publicly declare that my advice to the Latter-day Saints is to refrain from contracting any marriage forbidden by the law of the land.

WILFORD WOODRUFF
President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

 




President Lorenzo Snow offered the following:

“I move that, recognizing Wilford Woodruff as the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the only man on the earth at the present time who holds the keys of the sealing ordinances, we consider him fully authorized by virtue of his position to issue the Manifesto which has been read in our hearing, and which is dated September 24th, 1890, and that as a Church in General Conference assembled, we accept his declaration concerning plural marriages as authoritative and binding.”

The vote to sustain the foregoing motion was unanimous.

Salt Lake City, Utah, October 6, 1890.







 

EXCERPTS FROM THREE ADDRESSES BY
PRESIDENT WILFORD WOODRUFF
REGARDING THE MANIFESTO

The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty. (Sixty-first Semiannual General Conference of the Church, Monday, October 6, 1890, Salt Lake City, Utah. Reported in Deseret Evening News, October 11, 1890, p. 2.)

It matters not who lives or who dies, or who is called to lead this Church, they have got to lead it by the inspiration of Almighty God. If they do not do it that way, they cannot do it at all. . . .

I have had some revelations of late, and very important ones to me, and I will tell you what the Lord has said to me. Let me bring your minds to what is termed the manifesto. . . .

The Lord has told me to ask the Latter-day Saints a question, and He also told me that if they would listen to what I said to them and answer the question put to them, by the Spirit and power of God, they would all answer alike, and they would all believe alike with regard to this matter.

The question is this: Which is the wisest course for the Latter-day Saints to pursue—to continue to attempt to practice plural marriage, with the laws of the nation against it and the opposition of sixty millions of people, and at the cost of the confiscation and loss of all the Temples, and the stopping of all the ordinances therein, both for the living and the dead, and the imprisonment of the First Presidency and Twelve and the heads of families in the Church, and the confiscation of personal property of the people (all of which of themselves would stop the practice); or, after doing and suffering what we have through our adherence to this principle to cease the practice and submit to the law, and through doing so leave the Prophets, Apostles and fathers at home, so that they can instruct the people and attend to the duties of the Church, and also leave the Temples in the hands of the Saints, so that they can attend to the ordinances of the Gospel, both for the living and the dead?

The Lord showed me by vision and revelation exactly what would take place
if we did not stop this practice. If we had not stopped it, you would have had no use for . . . any of the men in this temple at Logan; for all ordinances would be stopped throughout the land of Zion. Confusion would reign throughout Israel, and many men would be made prisoners. This trouble would have come upon the whole Church, and we should have been compelled to stop the practice. Now, the question is, whether it should be stopped in this manner, or in the way the Lord has manifested to us, and leave our Prophets and Apostles and fathers free men, and the temples in the hands of the people, so that the dead may be redeemed. A large number has already been delivered from the prison house in the spirit world by this people, and shall the work go on or stop? This is the question I lay before the Latter-day Saints. You have to judge for yourselves. I want you to answer it for yourselves. I shall not answer it; but I say to you that that is exactly the condition we as a people would have been in had we not taken the course we have.

. . . I saw exactly what would come to pass if there was not something done. I have had this spirit upon me for a long time. But I want to say this: I should have let all the temples go out of our hands; I should have gone to prison myself, and let every other man go there, had not the God of heaven commanded me to do what I did do; and when the hour came that I was commanded to do that, it was all clear to me. I went before the Lord, and I wrote what the Lord told me to write. . . .

I leave this with you, for you to contemplate and consider. The Lord is at work with us.
(Cache Stake Conference, Logan, Utah, Sunday, November 1, 1891. Reported in Deseret Weekly, November 14, 1891.)
 
 
 

Now I will tell you what was manifested to me and what the Son of God performed in this thing. . . . All these things would have come to pass, as God Almighty lives, had not that Manifesto been given. Therefore, the Son of God felt disposed to have that thing presented to the Church and to the world for purposes in his own mind. The Lord had decreed the establishment of Zion. He had decreed the finishing of this temple. He had decreed that the salvation of the living and the dead should be given in these valleys of the mountains. And Almighty God decreed that the Devil should not thwart it. If you can understand that, that is a key to it.
 
(From a discourse at the sixth session of the dedication of the Salt Lake Temple, April 1893. Typescript of Dedicatory Services, Archives, Church Historical Department, Salt Lake City, Utah.)
 

 
 
 
 
What kind of  'Leadership' is THIS???
 
compared to...
 
 
 
 
Hebrews 11:35-40
 35.  Others were tortured and refused to be released, so that they might gain a better resurrection.
 36.  Some faced jeers and flogging, while still others were chained and put in prison.
 37.  They were stoned ; they were sawed in two; they were put to death by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated--
 38.  the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, and in caves and holes in the ground. 
 
 
 
 
 

So much for an 'Everlasting Covenant' that thundered out of Heaven!!!
 
Well; it DID last about 47 years!
 
 




"Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriage...I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws..."

~ Wilford Woodruff, 4th LDS President



26 posted on 05/13/2010 5:07:52 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: mamelukesabre
 
 Besides the ban on alcohol and tobacco, what about their religious practice is like the original smith version?
 
 
Here is where THAT comes from...
 

 
 
THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 89
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Kirtland, Ohio, February 27, 1833. HC 1: 327–329. As a consequence of the early brethren using tobacco in their meetings, the Prophet was led to ponder upon the matter; consequently he inquired of the Lord concerning it. This revelation, known as the Word of Wisdom, was the result. The first three verses were originally written as an inspired introduction and description by the Prophet.
 
1–9, Use of wine, strong drinks, tobacco, and hot drinks proscribed; 10–17, Herbs, fruits, flesh, and grain are ordained for the use of man and of animals; 18–21, Obedience to gospel law, including the Word of Wisdom, brings temporal and spiritual blessings.
 
  1 A aWord OF Wisdom, for the benefit of the council of high priests, assembled in Kirtland, and the church, and also the saints in Zion—
  2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the aword of wisdom, showing forth the order and bwill of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—
  3 Given for a principle with apromise, adapted to the capacity of the bweak and the weakest of all csaints, who are or can be called saints.
  4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of aevils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of bconspiring men in the last days, I have cwarned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—
  5 That inasmuch as any man adrinketh bwine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.
  6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, apure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.
  7 And, again, astrong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.
  8 And again, tobacco is not for the abody, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill.
  9 And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly.
  10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome aherbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—
  11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with aprudence and bthanksgiving.
  12 Yea, aflesh also of bbeasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used csparingly;
  13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be aused, only in times of winter, or of cold, or bfamine.
  14 All agrain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;
  15 And athese hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.
  16 All grain is good for the afood of man; as also the bfruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground—
  17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.
  18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, ashall receive bhealth in their navel and marrow to their bones;
  19 And shall afind bwisdom and great ctreasures of dknowledge, even hidden treasures;
  20 And shall arun and not be bweary, and shall walk and not faint.
  21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the adestroying angel shall bpass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.

27 posted on 05/13/2010 5:10:01 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: svcw
 
The answer is the FLDS, they believe they are the only true Mormons.
 
 
 
Hell!
 
That's what they ALL think!!


The following list is taken from the book Divergent Paths of Restoration:

FOUNDED BETWEEN 1830 AND 1844

NON-EXTANT MOVEMENTS FOUNDED 1844-1860

EXTANT MOVEMENTS

Splinter Groups and Sub-movements of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, James J. Strang, 1844

Splinter Groups and Sub-movements of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Brigham Young, 1847

  • Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints or Church of the First Born, Joseph Morris, 1861
  • The Prophet Cainan or Church of Jesus Christ of the Saints of the Most High God, George Williams, 1862
  • Morrisite Group, John Livingston, 1864
  • Church of Zion, William S. Godbe, 1868
  • Church of the First Born, George S. Dove, 1874
  • Priesthood Groups (Fundamentalists), 1890
  • United Order of Equality, Ephraim Peterson, 1909
  • The Church of Jesus Christ of Israel, J. H. Sherwood
  • Order of Aaron, Maurice L. Glendenning
  • Church of Freedom of Latter Day Saints, 1950s
  • Zion's Order of the Sons of Levi, Marl V. Kilgore, 1951
  • The Church of the Firstborn of the Fulness of Times, Joel F. LeBaron
  • The Church of the Firstborn, Ross W. LeBaron, 1955
  • Perfected Church of Jesus Christ of Immaculate Latter Day Saints, William C. Conway, 1958
  • Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, John Forsgren, 1960
  • Church of Jesus Christ, William Goldman, 1960
  • LDS Scripture Researchers/Believe God Society, Sherman Russell Lloyd, 1965
  • The Church of the Body and of the Spirit of Jessu Christ, Max Powers, 1965
  • United Order of the Saints of Guadeloupe, Michel Gamiette, 1966
  • United Order of the Family of Christ, David E. Desmond, 1966
  • Split from Zion's Order of the Sons of Levi, Eldon Taylor, 1969
  • Homosexual Church of Jesus Christ, Denver, Colorado, 1972
  • Latter Day Saints Church, N.S. Park, 1972
  • The Church of the Lamb of God, Ervil M. LeBaron, 1972
  • The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, Mikhail Krupenia, 1972
  • The New Jerusalem Group, Kathryn Carter, 1972
  • The Watchmen on the Towers of Latter Day Israel, Miltenberg, Braun, 1973
  • Church of Jesus Christ in Solemn Assembly, Alexnader Joseph, 1974
  • Evangelical Church of Christ, Church of the New Covenant in Christ, John W. Bryant, 1974
  • Split form Zion's Order of the Sons of Levi, Barton Kilgore, 1975
  • Affirmation, 1975
  • Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, Robert Simons, 1975
  • Church of the Firstborn of the Fulness of Times, Bruce Wakeham, 1975
  • Aaronic Order Break-off, 1977
  • Christ's Church, Inc., Gerald Peterson, 1978
  • Church of Jesus Christ, Art Bulla, 1978
  • The Restorers or School of the Prophets, Robert C. Crossfield, 1979
  • Zion's First International Church, LeeAnn Walker, 1980
  • The Free Will Mormon Church, Franklin Lee Coleman, 1980
  • Church of Jesus Christ, Jorge Mora, 1981
  • Sons Ahman Israel, Davied Israel, 1981
  • Samoan LDS Church, New Zealand, 1981
  • The Millennial Church of Jesus Christ, Leo P. Evoniuk, 1981
  • Peyote Way Church of God, Immanuel P. Trujillo, 1981
  • The Chruch of Jesus Christ of the Saints in Zion, Ken Asay, 1984
  • Break from the Church of Jesus Christ in Solemn Assembly, 1984
  • Church of Jesus Christ of All Latter-day Saints or Restoration Church of Jesus Christ, Antonio A. Feliz, 1985
  • Church of Christ of Latter-day Saints, Robert P. Madison, 1985
  • Church of Christ the Firstborn of the Fulness of Times, Siegfried J. Widmar, 1985
  • Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints Fundamentalists, Wight Family, 1985
  • Mormon Fundamentalists, England, Alan and Marian Munn, 1986
  • Churchof Jesus Christ Omnipotent, 1987
  • Community of Zion, Central Utah Division
  • Church of the First Born, General Assembly

Splinter Groups and Sub-movements of The Church of Jesus Christ, Alpheus Cutler, 1853

Splinter Groups and Sub-movements of The Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, 1851-1860

Splinter Groups and Sub-movements of The Church of Jesus Christ, William Bickerton, 1862

Splinter Groups and Sub-movements of Church of Christ (Temple Lot), Granville Hedrick, 1863

 

28 posted on 05/13/2010 5:11:52 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: delacoert
 
Smith didn't even follow Smith's original religion.
 
 
You mean like THIS???
 


 1 Timothy 3:2-3
 2.  Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
 3.  not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.
 
 
1 Timothy 3:12
   A deacon must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household well.
 
 
 Titus 1:6
   An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.




 
BEHOLD!!!!  The Restorative Power  of the Book of Mormon!!
 



 
THE BOOK OF JACOB
THE BROTHER OF NEPHI
CHAPTER 2
 
  24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
  25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.
  26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
  27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
  28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
  29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
  30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
  31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.
  32 And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts.
 

 TRUTH IGNORED

Smith, Young, Taylor, Pratt, Snow, Kimball, Woodruff ...

29 posted on 05/13/2010 5:13:09 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: mamelukesabre
Then why do you bash them?

Good Question.....


 

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/17#17

  17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
  18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
  19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
  20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother,
“I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”
 
 
And, continuing thru the years, the high ranking leaders of that Organization have done the same!
 
Joseph Smith continues: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith-History 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).
 
Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).
 
Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).
 
Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).
 
Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses, 18:172).
 
President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses, 10:127).
James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).
 
President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).
 
More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).
 
President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).
 
President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p.196).
 

 
NONE of the above has EVER been rescinded or retracted!

30 posted on 05/13/2010 5:14:46 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: mamelukesabre
Then why do you bash them?

Good Question.....


Pointing out that the TEACHINGS of MORMONism are NOT Christianity is ONLY called 'bashing' by those who do NOT like having the FACTS of their Bait-and-Switch religious tactics shown.

31 posted on 05/13/2010 5:16:04 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: mamelukesabre
You sit in your ivory tower and trash mormon theology...

Sorry; but the BIBLE 'trashes' MORMON theology.

It 'trashes' it's INCEPTION,

and it 'trashes' it's continuation.


If some folks want to start a charter school, and teach that 2+2=5; you can bet your bippy that some REAL math students will be on their case from day ONE!

32 posted on 05/13/2010 5:19:26 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Logophile
We take seriously Paul's admonition to the Colossians:
 
And yet manage to IGNORE the following:


KJV
 Galatians 1:6-9
 6.  I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
 7.  Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
 8.  But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
 9.  As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
 
 
 
 
ANYBODY???
 
Like this fine looking fellow???
 
 
 
 
 

2 Corinthians 11:12-15
 12.  But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
 13.  For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
 14.  And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
 15.  Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
 
 

Like THESE guys??
 
 
 
 
17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
 
 


 
Ephesians 2:1-2 
1.  And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:


 
1 Corinthians 4:17
  For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.
 
1 Corinthians 11:2
   Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.
 
2 Thessalonians 2:15
   Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
 
2 Timothy 1:13
   Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
 
2 Timothy 3:14-15
 14.  But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
 15.  And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

33 posted on 05/13/2010 5:20:55 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: mamelukesabre
There is no rational political reason whatsoever to make mormons feel unwelcome among politically conservative groups such as FR.

I guess you haven't noticed that you are in the RELIGION Forum on FR.

If you do NOT want religion; then join the masses and get in the OTHER forums.

34 posted on 05/13/2010 5:23:08 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Religion Moderator

I’ve suspected as much... ;^)


35 posted on 05/13/2010 5:23:36 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: boatbums
I think tea is a no-no, too.

Read reply #27.

36 posted on 05/13/2010 5:24:42 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
 
 

 
 
 
Joe: Hey Emma!   Guess what!?
 
Emma: You KNOW I hate these guessing games! What is it, Dear?
 
Joe: I heard a voice, probably the Lord, tell me I must take other wives.
 
Emma: WHAT!?   You ding bat!  Don't you KNOW what our precious BOOK says?   After all; YOU are the one that translated it!
 
Joe: Books; schmooks.   All I know is I've been COMMANDED to take other wives and you are to OBEY ME!!!
 
 
Emma:      "Though shalt NOT commit ADULTERY!!!"
 
 
Joe: Silly Woman!  You KNOW better than to take things out of CONTEXT!!!
 
 
 
 
 

 
...and the rest is HISTORY...
 

 
 
 
 
 
THE BOOK OF JACOB
THE BROTHER OF NEPHI
CHAPTER 2
 
  24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
  25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.
  26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
  27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
  28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
  29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
  30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
  31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.
  32 And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts.
 

Or even HERE:
 

 1 Timothy 3:2-3
 2.  Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
 3.  not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.
 
 
1 Timothy 3:12
   A deacon must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household well.
 
 
 Titus 1:6
   An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.



 
 
Emma: That's IT!   I'm LEAVING your sorry *!!!
 
Joe:  DARN you Emma; you were TOLD to accept this!!   Wait!!!   I hear a voice again!!!
 
 


 
THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 132
 
  51–57, Emma Smith is counseled (commanded) to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.
 
 
  51 Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to aprove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice.
  52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, areceive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.
  53 For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been afaithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him.
  54 And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and acleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be bdestroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law.
  55 But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an ahundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of beternal lives in the eternal worlds.
  56 And again, verily I say, let mine handmaid aforgive my servant Joseph his trespasses; and then shall she be forgiven her trespasses, wherein she has trespassed against me; and I, the Lord thy God, will bless her, and multiply her, and make her heart to brejoice.

37 posted on 05/13/2010 5:28:08 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: mamelukesabre
To summarize:
you apparently don't like Catholics - got it.
you apparently believe LDS are conservative IE Mitt Romney, Harry Reid, Orin Hatch - got it.
you apparently believe that LDS can do no wrong - got it.
you apparently believe I am politically stupid - got it.
you apparently know God better than anyone else - got it.
you apparently don't know which God because sometimes you capitalize God and sometimes do not capitalize god - got it.
you apparently believe on FR there is only need to discuss politics because religious discussion are a waste of time and space but spend much time telling us it is a waist of time and space - got it.
Well, I am going to return to my ivory tower now and contemplate your rebuke.
ta tah!
38 posted on 05/13/2010 6:31:16 AM PDT by svcw (Habakkuk 2:3)
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To: Religion Moderator
:)

Some things, meant to be insults, are more like awards that can be displayed on a wall - all depending on who gives them.

39 posted on 05/13/2010 6:38:02 AM PDT by delacoert
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To: Religion Moderator; mamelukesabre; delacoert
26Woe to you when all men speak well of you... (Jesus, Luke 6:26 -- one Luke to counter another)
40 posted on 05/13/2010 6:57:57 AM PDT by Colofornian
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