Posted on 05/12/2010 6:53:06 PM PDT by delacoert
Mormonism is essentially a sacramental religion, defined by ordinance and ritual more than doctrine or belief. Any effort to define “Mormon doctrine” is fraught with difficulty and virtually certain of error, although one might venture that the “belief” portion of the temple recommend interview defines doctrine.[1] As Edward Kimball says, “Church history shows that General Authorities frequently declare, clarify, refine, and qualify interpretations of doctrine, but these statements generally constitute only informed opinion.”[2]
On the other hand, there are numerous statements, writings and beliefs that have been put forward as doctrine, or believed as doctrine, at one time or by some people, that we can be fairly confident are not doctrine. We have somewhat more confidence about what is not doctrine than what is.
Only half-jokingly, one might start with the obvious-to-most-adult-Mormons statement that your high school seminary teacher was not a reliable source of doctrine.
So what do we know is not doctrine? Here is a short collection of ideas about “doctrines” we might reject, meant to invite comment and addendum. These are presented in no particular order, although the inspiration for this investigation is chapter 11 of Lengthen Your Stride, which depicts Spencer W. Kimball’s contributions to the discussion of doctrine and even more “not” doctrine.
A. Neither ‘Man, His Origin and Destiny’ by Elder Joseph Fielding Smith, nor ‘Mormon Doctrine’ by Elder Bruce R. McConkie, is an official publication of the Church.[3]
B. Despite numerous requests (and positions stated or implied in the publications noted in A above), the Church has never taken a definitive position on the matter of organic evolution.
C. “We denounce [the Adam-God Theory] and hope that everyone will be cautioned against this and other kinds of false doctrine.”[4]
D. Other churches are not all wrong. “The great religious leaders of the world such as Mohammed, Confucius, and the Reformers, as well as philosophers including Socrates, Plato, and others, received a portion of God’s light. Moral truths were given to them by God to enlighten whole nations and to bring a higher level of understanding to individuals.”[5]
E. References to blood atonement (leaving aside the atonement of Christ), if understood as applying to modern circumstances, ‘do not . . . represent the official stand of the Church.’[6]
F. Elder McConkie’s talk at BYU on “The Seven Deadly Heresies” (including acceptance of organic evolution, a belief that God progresses in knowledge, and the idea that progression from kingdom to kingdom in the afterlife is possible) were Elder McConkie’s personal views and not doctrine.[7]
G. The Joseph Smith Translation is “not the official Bible of the Church.” It is “interesting,” a “fruitful source,” and an “invaluable aid to biblical interpretation and understanding.”[8]
H. Church policy set in 1967 allowing only Melchizedek or Aaronic Priesthood holders to pray in sacrament meetings had no scriptural basis and should be abandoned.[9]
I. The practice of polygamy after 1890 is not in accord with the teachings of the Church.[10]
J. There is no ban on priesthood ordination of Black men after 1978.[11]
K. There is no authoritative or doctrinal explanation why the ordination of Black men was not allowed before 1978.
L. There is not an absolute prohibition on abortion.[12]
M. The Lectures on Faith are not doctrine.[13]
| [1] | In modern form the belief questions are: “(1) Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost? (2) Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer? (3) Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days? (4) Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?” These four questions are, of course, not wholly self-defining and lend themselves to a number of interpretations. |
| [2] | Lengthen Your Stride, The Presidency of Spencer W. Kimball, by Edward Kimball (Deseret Book 2005), at page 95. |
| [3] | Letters and journal entries from President David O. McKay in 1959 and 1960, among other sources. |
| [4] | Spencer W. Kimball at October General Conference in 1976. |
| [5] | Statement by the First Presidency on February 15, 1978. |
| [6] | Bruce R. McConkie, in 1977, responding to a question at the request of the First Presidency. |
| [7] | Lengthen Your Stride at page 101 and clarification in the version published in 1980 BYU Speeches of the Year, changing “we” to “I” and saying “my reasoning causes me to conclude.” |
| [8] | Quotes from the dictionary included in the LDS edition of the Bible. |
| [9] | Priesthood Bulletin 3, no. 3 (July/August 1967). |
| [10] | Official Declaration 1. |
| [11] | Official Declaration 2. |
| [12] | General Handbook of Instructions, which describes certain exceptions where abortion could be the better choice. |
| [13] | Not included in the 1979 and 1981 editions of the standard works. Ed Kimball notes in Lengthen Your Stride that inclusion was proposed at that time but not approved, and that “Several studies had recently concluded that Sidney Rigdon was the principal author of the lectures.” |
If a person does not care about their theology, they miss the importance of rooting their entire life in the true knowledge of God and a true, coherent, rational, theological worldview. A person's relationship with God is built on the foundation of what one believes about God and what it means to be right with God, and this is the most important determining factor in shaping the way a person lives. An atheological person does not seriously reflect on their own foundational worldview assumptions (e.g., what is truth, who is God, does this matter?), nor do they see how doing so would be relevant to everyday life.
Many Mormons, when asked what others should do if Mormonism is deeply dishonoring God, is false, and is sending people to everlasting conscious torment, answer that they should just leave Mormons alone.
I’m an Atheo...
This statement just boggles the mind that there are those who don't have a problem letting people spend eternity separated from God just to left alone.
Item G is interesting to me. What is meant by the “joe smith translation”?
The Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible (JST), also called the Inspired Version of the Bible (I.V.), is a version of the Bible dictated by Joseph Smith, Jr., the founder of the Latter Day Saint movement. Smith considered this work to be "a branch of his calling" as a prophet. The work is the King James Version of the Bible (KJV) with some significant additions and revisions. It is a sacred text and is part of the canon of the Community of Christ, formerly the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (RLDS), and other Latter Day Saint churches. Selections from the Joseph Smith Translation are also included in the footnotes and the appendix in the LDS-published King James Version of the Bible, but the LDS Church has only officially canonized certain excerpts that appear in its Pearl of Great Price.
GUIDE TO THE SCRIPTURES Joseph Smith Translation (JST) - according to LDS
Oh. I thought it was talking about the book of mormon(mormon bible)...as in mormons no longer consider the book of mormon to be their bible. So smith re-wrote the bible eh? and the mormons don’t want any part of it. that’s actually kinda funny.
So...how much of joseph smith’s original religion do present day mormons actually follow?
So basically trying to pin down the doctrine of the LDS is like try to pin down a car salesman on the price of the car he’s trying to sell you?
Apparently the FLDS follow what Joseph Smith taught to the letter.
I thought it was more like eating soup with a fork.
And while we all do a little drink'n now and then, most of them could don't have a strong care about the theology or even the history of their church.
Oh yes, I know a zealot will come by and throw rocks at this post, but then he/she knows down inside -everyone better some ZEAL around them.
It's sort of like a middle class support group - with a bit of religion, and a lot of Clannishness thrown in. Again, just my observations, and as they met the terms of the contracts so I'll continue to use them....
(Never take just one Mormon by hisself fishing with ya, they'll drink at the beer.)
I don’t really care about those people They’re about on the same level of sanity as the david koresh followers from what I understand. I’m wondering about the regular run of the mill mormons. Besides the ban on alcohol and tobacco, what about their religious practice is like the original smith version?
They’re still tea totalers aren’t they? It used to be a popular joke...if you needed an organ transplant, you wanted something from a dead mormon...low mileage, like new, barely used.
Sorry I thought you asked who was following what Joseph Smith taught. The answer is the FLDS, they believe they are the only true Mormons.
If you look at JS teaching for the year days and what LDS practice now, there is very little similarity.
Smith didn't even follow Smith's original religion.
Then why do you bash them? If it is true that they are nothing like smith and they largely are apathetic about smith’s historical teachings, then it appears to me it would be pointless to argue religion with the average mormon. And something a previous poster here posted makes sense to me...”it’s not relevant to my salvation” was the typical mormon response. I tend to agree with that. If the only people that ever got to heaven were the ones that read the entire bible and understood every word...boy would heaven be a sparsely populated place.
The problem I have with you and others here on FB who harp about mormons is that you presume to know the mind of god. You do not. No one does. God is infinite. The bible is text...a two dimensional visual representation of a sound based language invented by ignorant mortals who created it in an attempt to approximate the mind of god. Even if you fully comprehend every word of the bible(which I’m sure you don’t) you would still know next to nothing.
Here’s what I know: mormons are more conservative than catholics as far as politics go. There are more catholics in prison than there are mormons. There are more catholics on welfare than there are mormons. There are more illegitimate babies born to catholics than to mormons. There are more catholics paying union dues than mormons.
You sit in your ivory tower and trash mormon theology while down here in the real world of average everyday working joes, mormons are doing lots of good things and creating very little problems for us conservatives.
My opinion is that you and others like you are utter fools for wasting time and space on FR to attack mormon THEOLOGY, purposely trying to make mormons unwelcome here on FR, using the thuggish religion moderator to your advantage, and generally being politically stupid. There is no rational political reason whatsoever to make mormons feel unwelcome among politically conservative groups such as FR.
At best, this statement is only half true.
When applied to Mormonism, atheological means we Latter-day Saints do not engage much in what is sometimes called "philosophical theology." So yes, in that sense we tend to lack concern for theology.
However, that is not the same as saying we lack a concern for the truth. Philosophical theology is not the only way of discovering the truth, or even the best way.
Jesus taught that the way to know whether a doctrine comes from God is by obedience to God:
15 And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?
16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. (John 7:15-17)
We take seriously Paul's admonition to the Colossians:
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ." (1 Col. 2:8).Mormons tend to believe that revelation, faith, and experience are more important than philosophy or theology in discerning the truth. For me, Mormonism is a way of life based on a covenantal relationship with God, not merely a set of philosophical beliefs.
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