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Doctrine . . . Not [LDS Atheology]
By Common Consent ^ | January 18, 2007 | Chris Kimball

Posted on 05/12/2010 6:53:06 PM PDT by delacoert

Mormonism is essentially a sacramental religion, defined by ordinance and ritual more than doctrine or belief. Any effort to define “Mormon doctrine” is fraught with difficulty and virtually certain of error, although one might venture that the “belief” portion of the temple recommend interview defines doctrine.[1] As Edward Kimball says, “Church history shows that General Authorities frequently declare, clarify, refine, and qualify interpretations of doctrine, but these statements generally constitute only informed opinion.”[2]

On the other hand, there are numerous statements, writings and beliefs that have been put forward as doctrine, or believed as doctrine, at one time or by some people, that we can be fairly confident are not doctrine. We have somewhat more confidence about what is not doctrine than what is.

Only half-jokingly, one might start with the obvious-to-most-adult-Mormons statement that your high school seminary teacher was not a reliable source of doctrine.

So what do we know is not doctrine? Here is a short collection of ideas about “doctrines” we might reject, meant to invite comment and addendum. These are presented in no particular order, although the inspiration for this investigation is chapter 11 of Lengthen Your Stride, which depicts Spencer W. Kimball’s contributions to the discussion of doctrine and even more “not” doctrine.

A. Neither ‘Man, His Origin and Destiny’ by Elder Joseph Fielding Smith, nor ‘Mormon Doctrine’ by Elder Bruce R. McConkie, is an official publication of the Church.[3]

B. Despite numerous requests (and positions stated or implied in the publications noted in A above), the Church has never taken a definitive position on the matter of organic evolution.

C. “We denounce [the Adam-God Theory] and hope that everyone will be cautioned against this and other kinds of false doctrine.”[4]

D. Other churches are not all wrong. “The great religious leaders of the world such as Mohammed, Confucius, and the Reformers, as well as philosophers including Socrates, Plato, and others, received a portion of God’s light. Moral truths were given to them by God to enlighten whole nations and to bring a higher level of understanding to individuals.”[5]

E. References to blood atonement (leaving aside the atonement of Christ), if understood as applying to modern circumstances, ‘do not . . . represent the official stand of the Church.’[6]

F. Elder McConkie’s talk at BYU on “The Seven Deadly Heresies” (including acceptance of organic evolution, a belief that God progresses in knowledge, and the idea that progression from kingdom to kingdom in the afterlife is possible) were Elder McConkie’s personal views and not doctrine.[7]

G. The Joseph Smith Translation is “not the official Bible of the Church.” It is “interesting,” a “fruitful source,” and an “invaluable aid to biblical interpretation and understanding.”[8]

H. Church policy set in 1967 allowing only Melchizedek or Aaronic Priesthood holders to pray in sacrament meetings had no scriptural basis and should be abandoned.[9]

I. The practice of polygamy after 1890 is not in accord with the teachings of the Church.[10]

J. There is no ban on priesthood ordination of Black men after 1978.[11]

K. There is no authoritative or doctrinal explanation why the ordination of Black men was not allowed before 1978.

L. There is not an absolute prohibition on abortion.[12]

M. The Lectures on Faith are not doctrine.[13]

[1] In modern form the belief questions are: “(1) Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost? (2) Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer? (3) Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days? (4) Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?” These four questions are, of course, not wholly self-defining and lend themselves to a number of interpretations.
[2] Lengthen Your Stride, The Presidency of Spencer W. Kimball, by Edward Kimball (Deseret Book 2005), at page 95.
[3] Letters and journal entries from President David O. McKay in 1959 and 1960, among other sources.
[4] Spencer W. Kimball at October General Conference in 1976.
[5] Statement by the First Presidency on February 15, 1978.
[6] Bruce R. McConkie, in 1977, responding to a question at the request of the First Presidency.
[7] Lengthen Your Stride at page 101 and clarification in the version published in 1980 BYU Speeches of the Year, changing “we” to “I” and saying “my reasoning causes me to conclude.”
[8] Quotes from the dictionary included in the LDS edition of the Bible.
[9] Priesthood Bulletin 3, no. 3 (July/August 1967).
[10] Official Declaration 1.
[11] Official Declaration 2.
[12] General Handbook of Instructions, which describes certain exceptions where abortion could be the better choice.
[13] Not included in the 1979 and 1981 editions of the standard works. Ed Kimball notes in Lengthen Your Stride that inclusion was proposed at that time but not approved, and that “Several studies had recently concluded that Sidney Rigdon was the principal author of the lectures.”


TOPICS: Other non-Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: beck; glennbeck; inman; lds; mormomism; mormon; needanotherhobby
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To: Osage Orange
Many modern translations have "A"...

1 Timothy 6:10 (New International Version)
For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil.

161 posted on 05/15/2010 4:17:48 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Saundra Duffy
And stop insulting my Savior by spewing all that nonsense. Your hatefulness toward me and my faith is very telling.

We just GOTTA 'spew' because WE do not have a 'Temple Square' in which to place STATUES that state how NONE of Christianity is correct.

162 posted on 05/15/2010 4:19:31 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Osage Orange
And I see no sign of anti-mormon "garbage".


163 posted on 05/15/2010 4:22:55 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
 
 

 
 
 
              Gee!
 

164 posted on 05/15/2010 4:24:15 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Saundra Duffy
The Holy Ghost has feelings and you are breaking His heart with all this anti Mormon garbage.


165 posted on 05/15/2010 4:27:17 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: mamelukesabre
I’m not defending anything. I’m attacking you for attacking mormons. There’s a big difference.


166 posted on 05/15/2010 4:30:08 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Saundra Duffy
Heavenly Father is my Judge - not you.


167 posted on 05/15/2010 4:33:10 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: restornu; SZonian
thanks for asking I am doing fine!:)

Pray you are doing the same.


168 posted on 05/15/2010 4:37:22 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Saundra Duffy; svcw

And please don’t say “it’s a mystery.” Please don’t say that.
_______________________________________

YEEEAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH

Sandy doesnt like “mysteries”

Sandy is about to tell us ALL the secrets of the mormon temple ceremomnies...


169 posted on 05/15/2010 6:21:29 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Saundra Duffy; svcw

He gently speaks to us - not in a loud way but in a still, small voice. He leads us gently
________________________________

and yet mormonism is such a violent religion...

I wonder how that can be explained ???


170 posted on 05/15/2010 6:23:28 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Saundra Duffy

He warns us by piercing our conscience
________________________________________________

Too bad the founder of mormonism, Joey Smith never got to meet your holy ghost...

He might have lived a longer life...

and all those women he violated and all those people he murdered would have lived longer and much happier lives...


171 posted on 05/15/2010 6:41:06 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: svcw

Oh snap!


172 posted on 05/15/2010 6:48:53 AM PDT by svcw (Habakkuk 2:3)
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To: Tennessee Nana
doesnt like

Reading the mind of another Freeper is a form of "making it personal."

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

173 posted on 05/15/2010 7:09:26 AM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: Religion Moderator

Sorry

I’ll try to be careful


174 posted on 05/15/2010 7:13:00 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Saundra Duffy; svcw; Osage Orange; MHGinTN; Tennessee Nana; Elsie
The Holy Ghost has feelings and you are breaking His heart with all this anti Mormon garbage.

(Picking self up off floor!)

I question that was personally revealed to you. In my opinion you may have been praying over this book.

mormonism for dummies

...after eating a particularly spicy chili.

175 posted on 05/15/2010 8:55:39 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (I have discovered Campbell's Senior alphabet soup....it comes in large type.!)
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To: RnMomof7
I asked a simple question Saundra and you attacked me personally .

Some folks feel that personal attacks makes up for their ignorance of their own doctrine.

Mormons are steeped in the belief that they are special and that mormonism is above criticism. This belief is encouraged constantly by their leaders.

176 posted on 05/15/2010 9:12:47 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (I have discovered Campbell's Senior alphabet soup....it comes in large type.!)
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To: Tennessee Nana; Saundra Duffy
Sandy why dont you just stop insulting my Savior by spewing all that nonsense. Your hatefulness toward me and my faith is very telling. [TN]

Sandy, please write to SLC HQ.
Tell them you are an ex-Christian, now-Mormon.
Tell them to please stop referencing us as "apostates."
Tell them I don't belong to the "Church of Satan" (1 Nephi 14:9-10).
Tell them the profession of my faith is NOT "corruption" based, as the pages they print say.
Tell them 100% of my creeds are not "abomination"-laced, as the pages they print say.

All of these things are slander-filled.
I won't go as far as saying they are "hateful" -- as I don't know all their motivations...they could simply be badly mistaken. But they at least sound "hate-filled" -- even if they may not be.

I beg you. Think of all the Christians you worked with at YWAM?
Are they "apostates"? (No. Then that means your Lds leaders are wrong)
Are they 100% off in their creeds? (No. Then that means Joseph Smith was wrong)
Is the faith of our forefathers based upon their "corrupt" profession? (No. Then that means both Smith and his disciples have been badly mistaken)
Is the Mormon church the only true church on the face of the earth? Really? You believe that in your heart of hearts? (I don't. And that means if you don't, then you didn't look very closely @ D&C 1:30 when some zealous Mormon told you to pray about the Book of Mormon...because D&C 1:30 isn't in it)

Sandy, it's time to re-ponder past decisions. Past Christians in your life.

Are they really all these things Mormon leaders have tabbed them to be?

If not, then there's been some false prophecies uttered.

It only takes one theft = a thief
It only takes one murder = a murderer
It only takes a few false prophecies = a false prophet

I know it's tough. So much time spent.
So many relationships gained.
So many family commitments.
So much you've put yourself "on the line" as saying "this is the truth...I testify..."
But when you stand before the Lord, he may recall these Internet convos...
He may say, "Sandy, I loved you so much I sent you person after person after person who tried to warn you...but you wouldn't listen."

The Lord loves you, Sandy. He loves all Mormons. Enough to die for them. For all of their personal sins. And enough to be in a personal relationship with Him now. A relationship not simply based upon works. But trust. Faith. Yes confirmed by works -- but even that is the Holy Spirit working through us; hence, HE gets all the glory.

Therefore, Jesus was right. He who believes HAS eternal life. John 3:36. John 5:24. NOW.

Your Mormon leaders have redefined "eternal life" as "exaltation" and "eternal progression" and is only in store for the few Mormons -- the .4% of Americans who attend the Mormon temple.

Do you REALLY believe that Jesus died so that only .4% of Americans will live in the Father's presence for eternity? Really? Isn't reconciliation to the Father the heart of the gospel you proclaimed as a YWAMer?

17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!
18All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.
20We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God.
21God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. (2 Cor. 5:17-21)

Sandy, the apostle says in v. 18 re: those he was writing to -- that this reconciliation was past tense. These Corinthians were ALREADY reconciled to the Father. Yet Lds want to shut out 99.6% of all Americans as being reconciled to the Father for forever.

What good is a "forever family" if Heavenly Father's not there for 99.6% of Americans???!!!

Sandy, through YWAM you were given a "ministry" (v. 19) of reconcilation. You were a minister. You were an "ambassador" at large (v. 20). I beg of you, as Paul said: We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God (2 Cor. 5:20)

Return to the missionary, ambassador, and minister you have been!!!

177 posted on 05/15/2010 10:23:18 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: greyfoxx39

Mormons are steeped in the belief that they are special and that mormonism is above criticism. This belief is encouraged constantly by their leaders.
____________________________________________

Unlike Christian leaders who encourage their congregations to search the Bible to see if the sermons were scriptural...

Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. Acts 17:11


178 posted on 05/15/2010 1:17:54 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: svcw
At my church there is a summary of accounting every month (easy with todays financial programs), more detailed at years end, with the exception of who gives what nothing is hidden.

Same at my church friend. We vote on expenditures that aren't in the budget, even some pretty small stuff. I'm beginning to wonder why we even have 3 trustees.

179 posted on 05/15/2010 3:39:47 PM PDT by Graybeard58 (No Romney,No Mark Kirk (Illinois), not now, not ever!)
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To: Tennessee Nana

There is no TRY;
There is only DO.

180 posted on 05/15/2010 4:25:57 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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