WAS A “RESTORATION” OF THE GOSPEL NECESSARY?

Yes I mean the LDS slanders Jesus.

The fact that you say you love Christ does not mean you are following the actual Christ. Either you are sadly deceived or sadder still profiting from the deception.

Saying the Christ is Satan's brother, that he is one of many gods, that he is just part of a committee of gods and that he was conceived through the act of a physical father and physical virgin mother among other things the LDS doctrines profess are at the very least slanderous.

If you truly loved the True Christ such concepts would be as abhorrent to you as they are to me. That they are not...

The LdS have been attacking the RCC from their (LdS) beginning. In mormonism, Catholics are the “whore of Babylon”. As a Catholic, you have a dog in the fight so to speak if you choose.

All Christians have a dog in the fight with the LDS...

Its our Christ they are trying to steal...

Normandy, I do like you. You are not easily offended. You make good casual conversation. Not much, if anything, expressed in overblown hyperbole. Your intentions always seem high. I think you can add much to these dialogues by sticking around.

Yes, we send out missionaries to share the gospel message because we think it is important and can be a great blessing in peoples’ lives.

Well, you've just answered your own query then...that if you don't agree with [fill-in-the-blank], why not just ignore it and let them choose to practice and believe as they wish?

So our answer is likewise: Yes, we send out online missionaries to share both the Law [anything that will help to see that they are trusting in themselves/own efforts] and the Gospel message because it is important and is a blessing in the lives in transitioning Mormons like Szonian and SENTINEL -- and in reinforcing Lds-turned-Christians like CC, GF, Reaganaut and others.

The Lds church has online missionaries, does it not? (I guess I'll answer my own Q: "Yes, it does" :) )

Now the Mormon version of "the Law" is that...
...there's only one true and living church -- and we aren't it! (Doctrine & Covenants 1:30);
...there's only one church of the Lamb -- and we aren't it (we're under the Book of Mormon's label as the "church of Satan" -- see 1 Nephi 14:9-10)
...the rest of us are "apostates," as were all the generations before us going back almost 2,000 years [which has also been part of the Lds missionary "message" ... President Marion G. Romney, when he ran the Lds missionary enterprise in the 60s, ensure that the "apostasy" and restoration was one of the top four discussion items...

So, Norm, you can see why we might be in a posture of both "defense" at times (answering these claims)...as well as sharing the gospel...

And, you see, the gospel we share actually is a wee bit closer to SOME of the original things shared in the Book of Mormon..."plain and precious things" that the Mormon church quickly lost.

Examples?
...relying ALONE upon the merits of Christ... (Moroni 6:4)
Wherefore, my beloved brethren, reconcile yourselves to the will of God, and not to the will of the devil and the flesh; and remember, after ye are reconciled unto God, that it is ONLY IN AND THROUGH THE GRACE OF GOD THAT YE ARE SAVED. (2 Nephi 10:24)
And, before Smith got it wrong in 2 Nephi 25:23, he at least got it right both in parts of 2 Nephi 2:4-8: “Salvation is free…And by the law no flesh is justified…Behold, he offereth himself a sacrifice for sin, to answer the ends of the law, unto all those who have a broken heart and a contrite spirit; and unto none else can the ends of the law be answered. Wherefore, how great the importance to make these things known unto the inhabitants of the earth, that they may know that there is no flesh that can dwell in the presence of God, save it be through the merits and mercy, and grace of the Holy Messiah, who layeth down his life…” (2 Nephi 2:4-5, 7-8)

Now, may I remind you that to be in God's presence is to the Mormon reserved for the highest degree of glory? And that only the Messiah's merits (not ours) will place us in the Father's presence?

So you can see, too...that the "gospel" version of Mormonism is badly off-track...and since they are claiming, "We're Mormons, too," you can see, can't you, how confusing that's going to be to non-Christians when they hear the revised Mormon version..."saved by grace, after ALL YOU CAN DO" and works-righteousness, and as Spencer W. Kimball emphasized, pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps.

The Bible makes it clear that:
1. Works nullify grace (see Romans 11:5-6)
2. Works don't save (John 6:28-29; Eph. 2:8-9; even the Book of Mormon agrees -- 2 Nephi 26:25, 27; Ether 12:8, 33)
3. The gospel does NOT include laws (Romans 3:19-24) or ordinances (Col. 2:16-17) or works (Titus 3:5-7)
4. And the law is distinct from the gospel (2 Tim. 1:13) ...
5. And that's crucial...'cause the Law doesn't save (even the Book of Mormon agrees here -- Mosiah 3:15; 13:27; Alma 334:13-14; Ether 12:11; 2 Nephi 25:27; 2 Nephi 2:5,7)

So, I'd be glad to dialogue with you more about these distinctives.

BIBLE DICTIONARY
Restitution; Restoration

LDS.org

These terms denote a return of something once present, but which has been taken away or lost. It involves, for example the renewal of the earth to its paradisiacal glory as it was before the fall of Adam (A of F 10; cf. D&C 133: 23-24 with Gen. 10: 25). In terms of the soul of man it means a return of the individual to the presence of God, and includes the reuniting of the physical body with the spirit (see Resurrection). It means a reestablishment of the gospel of Jesus Christ on the earth in the last days, with the powers, ordinances, doctrines, offices, and all things as they have existed in former ages. It means a gathering together of the house of Israel from its scattered condition. Thus it is frequently spoken of as the restitution (or restoration) or all things, as in Acts 3: 19-21. The time in which all these things are accomplished is called the dispensation of the fulness of times (Eph. 1: 10; D&C 27: 6, 13).

References

Gen. 10: 25

25 And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother’s name was Joktan.
Acts 3: 19-21

  19 ¶ Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

  20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

  21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
Eph. 1: 10

10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
D&C 27: 6, 13

  6 And also with Elias, to whom I have committed the keys of bringing to pass the restoration of all things spoken by the mouth of all the holy prophets since the world began, concerning the last days;

      •  •  •

  13 Unto whom I have committed the keys of my kingdom, and a dispensation of the gospel for the last times; and for the fulness of times, in the which I will gather together in one all things, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth;
D&C 133: 23-24

23 He shall command the great deep, and it shall be driven back into the north countries, and the islands shall become one land;

24 And the land of Jerusalem and the land of Zion shall be turned back into their own place, and the earth shall be like as it was in the days before it was divided.
A of F 1: 10

10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.

From Lds.org: It means a reestablishment of the gospel of Jesus Christ on the earth in the last days, with the powers, ordinances, doctrines, offices, and all things as they have existed in former ages.

Thanks, GF.

You see, Norm, this is what I'm talking about. In my previous post, I said there were no ordinances in the true gospel. There is no word for "ordinance" in the Bible. The closest word there is -- is "decree."

On Jan. 5, 1831, the simple Mormon "gospel" was found in D&C 39:6, where Smith defined it: And this is my gospel--repentance and baptism by water, and then cometh the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost, even the Comforter, which showeth all things, and teacheth the peaceable things of the kingdom.

Now just look at how much the Lds church has loaded down upon its once more simplified "gospel" version ever since.

P.S. As a Baptist, I'm referred to mistakenly as, "protestant". I am not.

But being a Baptist you can take the slings and arrows of your enemies! ;0

ABSOLUTELY INDEED.

That rubber history stuff in favor of bureaucratic political Rome centerd power mongering

is soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

CONVENIENT.

Sheesh.

Insults our intelligence at some point.

Not to mention God’s!

I got mixed into this thread thinking it was an LDS attack on the RCC.

Well! We sure wouldn't want THIS idea to be propagated!

THE FIRST BOOK OF NEPHI
HIS REIGN AND MINISTRY

CHAPTER 14

An angel tells Nephi of the blessings and cursings to fall upon the Gentiles—There are only two churches: the Church of the Lamb of God and the church of the devil—The saints of God in all nations are persecuted by the great and abominable church—The apostle John shall write concerning the end of the world. Between 600 and 592 B.C.

1 And it shall come to pass, that if the Gentiles shall hearken unto the Lamb of God in that day that he shall manifest himself unto them in word, and also in power, in very deed, unto the taking away of their stumbling blocks—
2 And harden not their hearts against the Lamb of God, they shall be numbered among the seed of thy father; yea, they shall be numbered among the house of Israel; and they shall be a blessed people upon the promised land forever; they shall be no more brought down into captivity; and the house of Israel shall no more be confounded.
3 And that great pit, which hath been digged for them by that great and abominable church, which was founded by the devil and his children, that he might lead away the souls of men down to hell—yea, that great pit which hath been digged for the destruction of men shall be filled by those who digged it, unto their utter destruction, saith the Lamb of God; not the destruction of the soul, save it be the casting of it into that hell which hath no end.
4 For behold, this is according to the captivity of the devil, and also according to the justice of God, upon all those who will work wickedness and abomination before him.
5 And it came to pass that the angel spake unto me, Nephi, saying: Thou hast beheld that if the Gentiles repent it shall be well with them; and thou also knowest concerning the covenants of the Lord unto the house of Israel; and thou also hast heard that whoso repented not must perish.
6 Therefore, woe be unto the Gentiles if it so be that they harden their hearts against the Lamb of God.
7 For the time cometh, saith the Lamb of God, that I will work a great and a marvelous work among the children of men; a work which shall be everlasting, either on the one hand or on the other—either to the convincing of them unto peace and life eternal, or unto the deliverance of them to the hardness of their hearts and the blindness of their minds unto their being brought down into captivity, and also into destruction, both temporally and spiritually, according to the captivity of the devil, of which I have spoken.
8 And it came to pass that when the angel had spoken these words, he said unto me: Rememberest thou the covenants of the Father unto the house of Israel? I said unto him, Yea.
9 And it came to pass that he said unto me: Look, and behold that great and abominable church, which is the mother of abominations, whose founder is the devil.
10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth.
11 And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the whore of all the earth, and she sat upon many waters; and she had dominion over ball the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people.
12 And it came to pass that I beheld the church of the Lamb of God, and its numbers were few, because of the wickedness and abominations of the whore who sat upon many waters; nevertheless, I beheld that the church of the Lamb, who were the saints of God, were also upon ball the face of the earth; and their dominions upon the face of the earth were small, because of the wickedness of the great whore whom I saw.
13 And it came to pass that I beheld that the great mother of abominations did gather together multitudes upon the face of all the earth, among all the nations of the Gentiles, to fight against the Lamb of God.
14 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the power of the Lamb of God, that it descended upon the saints of the church of the Lamb, and upon the covenant people of the Lord, who were scattered upon all the face of the earth; and they were armed with righteousness and with the power of God in great glory.
15 And it came to pass that I beheld that the wrath of God was poured out upon that great and abominable church, insomuch that there were wars and rumors of wars among all the nations and kindreds of the earth.
16 And as there began to be wars and rumors of wars among all the nations which belonged to the mother of abominations, the angel spake unto me, saying: Behold, the wrath of God is upon the mother of harlots; and behold, thou seest all these things—
17 And when the day cometh that the wrath of God is poured out upon the mother of harlots, which is the great and abominable church of all the earth, whose founder is the devil, then, at that day, the work of the Father shall commence, in preparing the way for the fulfilling of his covenants, which he hath made to his people who are of the house of Israel.
18 And it came to pass that the angel spake unto me, saying: Look!
19 And I looked and beheld a man, and he was dressed in a white robe.
20 And the angel said unto me: Behold one of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
21 Behold, he shall see and write the remainder of these things; yea, and also many things which have been.
22 And he shall also write concerning the end of the world.
23 Wherefore, the things which he shall write are just and true; and behold they are written in the book which thou beheld proceeding out of the mouth of the Jew; and at the time they proceeded out of the mouth of the Jew, or, at the time the book proceeded out of the mouth of the Jew, the things which were written were plain and pure, and most precious and easy to the understanding of all men.
24 And behold, the things which this apostle of the Lamb shall write are many things which thou hast seen; and behold, the remainder shalt thou see.
25 But the things which thou shalt see hereafter thou shalt not write; for the Lord God hath ordained the apostle of the Lamb of God that he should write them.
26 And also others who have been, to them hath he shown all things, and they have written them; and they are sealed up to come forth in their purity, according to the truth which is in the Lamb, in the own due time of the Lord, unto the house of Israel.
27 And I, Nephi, heard and bear record, that the name of the apostle of the Lamb was john, according to the word of the angel.
28 And behold, I, Nephi, am forbidden that I should write the remainder of the things which I saw and heard; wherefore the things which I have written sufficeth me; and I have written but a small part of the things which I saw.
29 And I bear record that I saw the things which my father saw, and the angel of the Lord did make them known unto me.
30 And now I make an end of speaking concerning the things which I saw while I was carried away in the spirit; and if all the things which I saw are not written, the things which I have written are true. And thus it is. Amen.

We are happy to let people worship as they please.

Even if your CHURCH believes that if they do NOT enter into the MORMON religious organization they will NOT be in the presense of GOD for eternity?

Resty doesnt know ...

She’s a mormon female so she doesnt have the mormon pesthood...

Not knowledge, no discernment, no power...

Will do.

I can assure you that quite the opposite is true; we love and worship him. He is the center of our faith. (Yes, the Jesus of the New Testament)

O... K...

In conclusion let us summarize this grand key, these “Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet”, for our salvation depends on them.

1. The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.
2. The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.
3. The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.
4. The prophet will never lead the church astray.
5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.
6. The prophet does not have to say “Thus Saith the Lord,” to give us scripture.
7. The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.
8. The prophet is not limited by men’s reasoning.
9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual.
10. The prophet may advise on civic matters.
11. The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.
12. The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.
13. The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidency—the highest quorum in the Church.
14. The prophet and the presidency—the living prophet and the First Presidency—follow them and be blessed—reject them and suffer.

I testify that these fourteen fundamentals in following the living prophet are true. If we want to know how well we stand with the Lord then let us ask ourselves how well we stand with His mortal captain—how close do our lives harmonize with the Lord’s anointed—the living Prophet—President of the Church, and with the Quorum of the First Presidency.

Ezra Taft Benson

(Address given Tuesday, February 26, 1980 at Brigham Young University)

(At which to take umbrage) gotta keep reminding myself to not end a sentence with one of those dang ole prepositions.

Yes; we ALL know (or should) that a proposition is nothing to end a sentence with!

There’s GOT to be a pony in here somewhere!

Thank you Normandy,
The reason that we talk to our mormon friends is because the conscience is eternal.

That;s for sure! I've been called worse things than, "protestant", in my life.

I put my mouse over YOUR link (The Scriptures) and I didn't see a 4 in front of it.

Are you some kind of DECEIVER?

You folks realize that GENTILE (to MORMONs) is ANYONE who is NOT Mormon.

She’s a mormon female so she doesnt have the mormon pesthood...

Oh?

My take on the EVIDENCE is different!