Replies

Normandy, I do like you. You are not easily offended. You make good casual conversation. Not much, if anything, expressed in overblown hyperbole. Your intentions always seem high. I think you can add much to these dialogues by sticking around.

Yes, we send out missionaries to share the gospel message because we think it is important and can be a great blessing in peoples’ lives.

Well, you've just answered your own query then...that if you don't agree with [fill-in-the-blank], why not just ignore it and let them choose to practice and believe as they wish?

So our answer is likewise: Yes, we send out online missionaries to share both the Law [anything that will help to see that they are trusting in themselves/own efforts] and the Gospel message because it is important and is a blessing in the lives in transitioning Mormons like Szonian and SENTINEL -- and in reinforcing Lds-turned-Christians like CC, GF, Reaganaut and others.

The Lds church has online missionaries, does it not? (I guess I'll answer my own Q: "Yes, it does" :) )

Now the Mormon version of "the Law" is that...
...there's only one true and living church -- and we aren't it! (Doctrine & Covenants 1:30);
...there's only one church of the Lamb -- and we aren't it (we're under the Book of Mormon's label as the "church of Satan" -- see 1 Nephi 14:9-10)
...the rest of us are "apostates," as were all the generations before us going back almost 2,000 years [which has also been part of the Lds missionary "message" ... President Marion G. Romney, when he ran the Lds missionary enterprise in the 60s, ensure that the "apostasy" and restoration was one of the top four discussion items...

So, Norm, you can see why we might be in a posture of both "defense" at times (answering these claims)...as well as sharing the gospel...

And, you see, the gospel we share actually is a wee bit closer to SOME of the original things shared in the Book of Mormon..."plain and precious things" that the Mormon church quickly lost.

Examples?
...relying ALONE upon the merits of Christ... (Moroni 6:4)
Wherefore, my beloved brethren, reconcile yourselves to the will of God, and not to the will of the devil and the flesh; and remember, after ye are reconciled unto God, that it is ONLY IN AND THROUGH THE GRACE OF GOD THAT YE ARE SAVED. (2 Nephi 10:24)
And, before Smith got it wrong in 2 Nephi 25:23, he at least got it right both in parts of 2 Nephi 2:4-8: “Salvation is free…And by the law no flesh is justified…Behold, he offereth himself a sacrifice for sin, to answer the ends of the law, unto all those who have a broken heart and a contrite spirit; and unto none else can the ends of the law be answered. Wherefore, how great the importance to make these things known unto the inhabitants of the earth, that they may know that there is no flesh that can dwell in the presence of God, save it be through the merits and mercy, and grace of the Holy Messiah, who layeth down his life…” (2 Nephi 2:4-5, 7-8)

Now, may I remind you that to be in God's presence is to the Mormon reserved for the highest degree of glory? And that only the Messiah's merits (not ours) will place us in the Father's presence?

So you can see, too...that the "gospel" version of Mormonism is badly off-track...and since they are claiming, "We're Mormons, too," you can see, can't you, how confusing that's going to be to non-Christians when they hear the revised Mormon version..."saved by grace, after ALL YOU CAN DO" and works-righteousness, and as Spencer W. Kimball emphasized, pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps.

The Bible makes it clear that:
1. Works nullify grace (see Romans 11:5-6)
2. Works don't save (John 6:28-29; Eph. 2:8-9; even the Book of Mormon agrees -- 2 Nephi 26:25, 27; Ether 12:8, 33)
3. The gospel does NOT include laws (Romans 3:19-24) or ordinances (Col. 2:16-17) or works (Titus 3:5-7)
4. And the law is distinct from the gospel (2 Tim. 1:13) ...
5. And that's crucial...'cause the Law doesn't save (even the Book of Mormon agrees here -- Mosiah 3:15; 13:27; Alma 334:13-14; Ether 12:11; 2 Nephi 25:27; 2 Nephi 2:5,7)

So, I'd be glad to dialogue with you more about these distinctives.

BIBLE DICTIONARY
Restitution; Restoration

LDS.org

These terms denote a return of something once present, but which has been taken away or lost. It involves, for example the renewal of the earth to its paradisiacal glory as it was before the fall of Adam (A of F 10; cf. D&C 133: 23-24 with Gen. 10: 25). In terms of the soul of man it means a return of the individual to the presence of God, and includes the reuniting of the physical body with the spirit (see Resurrection). It means a reestablishment of the gospel of Jesus Christ on the earth in the last days, with the powers, ordinances, doctrines, offices, and all things as they have existed in former ages. It means a gathering together of the house of Israel from its scattered condition. Thus it is frequently spoken of as the restitution (or restoration) or all things, as in Acts 3: 19-21. The time in which all these things are accomplished is called the dispensation of the fulness of times (Eph. 1: 10; D&C 27: 6, 13).

References

Gen. 10: 25

25 And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother’s name was Joktan.
Acts 3: 19-21

  19 ¶ Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

  20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

  21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
Eph. 1: 10

10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
D&C 27: 6, 13

  6 And also with Elias, to whom I have committed the keys of bringing to pass the restoration of all things spoken by the mouth of all the holy prophets since the world began, concerning the last days;

      •  •  •

  13 Unto whom I have committed the keys of my kingdom, and a dispensation of the gospel for the last times; and for the fulness of times, in the which I will gather together in one all things, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth;
D&C 133: 23-24

23 He shall command the great deep, and it shall be driven back into the north countries, and the islands shall become one land;

24 And the land of Jerusalem and the land of Zion shall be turned back into their own place, and the earth shall be like as it was in the days before it was divided.
A of F 1: 10

10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.

Hi Colofornian

Thanks for the kind reply.

It seems like the faith and works relationship is at the crux of many discussions between Mormons and Protestants.

When reading the New Testament I find many, many places where Jesus gives commandments about how we should live. For example, the Sermon on the Mount contains many instructions and exhortations about behavior.

Throughout his ministry he called upon people to repent and to sin no more. In the parable of the sheep and the goats he explains that those who will inherit the kingdom prepared from the foundation of the world will be those who were charitable and kind to the less fortunate.

I can find nothing in the words of Christ where sin is excused. We can’t be saved in our sins - but we can be saved from our sins on condition of repentance.

I would never claim that our works save us - they don’t - but we are commanded to repent and “bring forth fruits meet for repentance”.

Is there a contradiction between letting people alone to practice their religion as they please and sending missionaries to share the message of the Latter-day Saints?

I don’t think there is really. It would be a problem if Mormon missionaries pestered and harrassed people who didn’t want anything to do with the message — but they don’t do that. They invite people to learn more if they are interested.

I think that’s a fair way to act in a free society. I have no trouble with Jehovah’s witnesses coming to my door and inviting me to learn more, or anyone from any other religion so long as they are respectful and will leave me alone if I say I’m not interested.

Glad we can be friendly :)

Normandy

Normandy, I do like you. You are not easily offended. You make good casual conversation. Not much, if anything, expressed in overblown hyperbole. Your intentions always seem high. I think you can add much to these dialogues by sticking around.

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I echo this statement.