Posted on 03/15/2010 12:07:15 PM PDT by Colofornian
Edited on 03/23/2010 6:15:31 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]
When Glenn Beck told listeners of his radio show on March 2 that they should "run as fast as you can" from any church that preached "social or economic justice" because those were code words for Communism and Nazism, he probably thought he was tweaking a few crunchy religious liberals who didn't listen to the show anyway. Instead he managed to outrage Christians in most mainline Protestant denominations, African-American congregations, Hispanic churches, and Catholics...
(Excerpt) Read more at swampland.blogs.time.com ...
No, there are people who leave Mormonism who I don’t believe turn “utterly against God”.
So; are you saying that you do NOT believe what MORMON leaders have TAUGHT?
Good idea for if YOU ever are going to leave MORMONism! ;^)
Is that ANYthing like STARING into the Bible and thinking the ONE man/ONE wife doesn't apply to you?
Why EITHER of these choices?
Merely FOLLOW the PROPHET!
In conclusion let us summarize this grand key, these “Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet”, for our salvation depends on them.
1. The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.
2. The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.
3. The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.
4. The prophet will never lead the church astray.
5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.
6. The prophet does not have to say “Thus Saith the Lord,” to give us scripture.
7. The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.
8. The prophet is not limited by men’s reasoning.
9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual.
10. The prophet may advise on civic matters.
11. The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.
12. The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.
13. The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidency—the highest quorum in the Church.
14. The prophet and the presidency—the living prophet and the First Presidency—follow them and be blessed—reject them and suffer.
I testify that these fourteen fundamentals in following the living prophet are true. If we want to know how well we stand with the Lord then let us ask ourselves how well we stand with His mortal captain—how close do our lives harmonize with the Lord’s anointed—the living Prophet—President of the Church, and with the Quorum of the First Presidency.
Ezra Taft Benson
(Address given Tuesday, February 26, 1980 at Brigham Young University)
You are the one changing definitions, not me.
But if you insist on calling ‘saying thank you’ a work, i feel sorry for your kids since you have never given them a gift apparently.
Yes; you do.
But we do NOT take your 'word' for it with any explanation.
WHY is it WRONG?
We are perfectly aware that the mormon church encourages you to do so...the "milk" vs. "meat" practice. I'm sure you have seen the posts of Millet's "answer the question that should have been asked". There is a careful selection of how much of a passage to cite, how much to leave out, just where to stop in order to proclaim your message via missionary training.
As a rule, when the "you are cherry-picking" claim comes against us, we respond by posting additional source material to buttress our information rather than the "If we do 'A' then you do 'B' defense.
It is NOT to our advantage, as it is to mormonism, to obfuscate and/or hide doctrinal information provided from early mormon sources and leaders.
Christ found me, and rescued me from Mormonism. I did nothing.
Godzilla, did you read my long post? Apparently you have, because if you have, you have successfully ignored it.
“Being damned” is not equivalent to “being a son of Perdition.” As the rule of thumb goes, very, very, very few people, born into this life, will become a son of perdition and be cast into outer darkness. As another previous post of mine said, one can still be in a kingdom of glory and still be “damned.”
Are you taking your definition and view of “damn” and “salvation” and trying to force into my beliefs.
A friend of mine from Australia was in college one day and she needed to erase something and hadn’t brought an eraser. She tapped the shoulder of the man sitting in front of her and said in a rather loud voice if he had a rubber that she could use. Needless to say, the whole class erupted into laughter, most of them upon hearing the word “rubber” and here is a beautiful young woman asking this young man for a condom, while some in the class realized that when she said “rubber,” she didn’t mean “condom”, rather she spoke the word that is used in Australia for “eraser.”
If you ask me what I believe, if it doesn’t make any sense to you, ask me to explain more or give more examples. Don’t just simply assume that what you think I saud, or wanted me to say, is what I said. The young man heard “rubber” and thought she meant “condom” and she said “rubber” thinking “eraser.”
It’s like what Steven R. Covey said in his book “7 Habits,” “Seek to understand before being understood.”
It is.
So what does DAMNED mean to you MORMONs?
It was BY saying it; so I ASSUME he was using YOUR definition.
What does DAMNED mean to Traditional MORMONism?
well, when they can’t base an argument on facts, they change the definitions.
Not seen this phrase lately - I thought it was superceded by OUT OF CONTEXT like Resty complains about all the time; and then FAILS to post the stuff IN context so her whine could be justified.
Wow! A Mormon who will admit he believes damnation is a "degree of glory."
Lurkers, do you see why Mormons are such topsy-turvy theological folks? They take a Biblical concept like damnation; and before you know it, the damned are just "heavenly!"
(And they say it all with a nice smile and nice disposition, too!)
Okay Else, I’ll take the time to explain it to you in greater detail than I have already done.
First of all, in CC’s post 666, she said and I’m post the complete post:
“For a Christian, Salvation is Eternal life with God.
Go ahead, now that I answered what is exaltation?
Because with Mormon salvation, you do not dwell with God - Therefore Mormon salvation is not equal with Christian Salvation. In the telestial Kingdom, the terrestrial Kingdom - no dwelling with God - only in the Celestial Kingdom through Exaltation which a Mormon must earn through works, does one have free exchanges with God, by becoming a god.
And no more of your snide, “if you were Mormon,” crap. I was Mormon. I can post my entire genealogy if you wish....Mormons now and going back to the mid 1800’s every.single.one! - I once had it on my homepage. At least be man enough to grant me my history.”
In her first sentence she said that salvation is living eternally with God. Any questions here? Have I misunderstood her in any way?
In the second sentence she basically asked what is exaltation. Have I gotten it right so far?
The third paragraph is where I have a problem. I think that she simply didn’t phrase the sentence correcting and left a few words out.
This in the first sentence in the third paragraph: “Because with Mormon salvation, you do not dwell with God -...”
She stated a a statement of fact that for Mormons, salvation means “to not dwell with God.” No exceptions. Have I in any way misinterpreted what CC said.
How I understand what she said is that we Mormons believe that everybody who is saved, doesn’t live with God. That makes no sense to me.
I suggested in another post, maybe what she meant to say was, “Because with Mormon salvation, you could have salvation and still don’t dwell with God.” This would mean that what a Mormon means by salvation can be very different from what a traditional Christian means by salvation.
Can you see the problem here with what she said in her post?
I’m not chiding her, I’m just trying to seek clarification from her for what she said.
She wants me to explain what “exaltation” is, but if she has a huge misconception of what I believe “salvation” is, would it do any good to explain the finer details of what I believe “salvation” is?
Lady R, it’s not a matter of me giving them a gift or not, it’s a matter of them accepting or rejecting the gift, if I gave them one. Accepting or rejecting the gift is something they have to do. That is not grace. Giving the gift is grace, accepting the gift is, since it’s something that they have to do and not God, work.
I have asked many Evangelicals how they define “work” and they said that it was something that we did, something that God didn’t do. Grace is what God does for us, in spite of our unworthiness.
BTW, if I “gave” a gift to my child and he wasn’t aware of the gift or even knew that it existed, should I punish the little brat for his lack of gratitude for not accepting the gift?
Urroner, as the Psalmist says: In God is my salvation and my glory: the rock of my strength, and my refuge, is in God. (Ps. 62:7)
God Himself is our salvation. We are not only saved from so many things (sin, death, Satan, this world's environment-as-is, etc.), but we are saved unto Him! It's a living relationship.
You can't just take a verse like John 17:3, where Jesus defines eternal life, "And this is eternal life: That you know the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom He has sent." -- and then say, "Well, we're going to post a 'Mormon temple club' ONLY sign over that verse...you see, that verse applies ONLY to temple Mormons...not even any other Mormon...we're going to make 'eternal life' exclusive to whether a lay bishop passes you for an interview..."
For you to try to bar the door to over 99% of humanity as having an eternal presence access to God the Father is quite "illuminating."
It's exactly opposite of end-of-the Bible passages like Rev. 22:17: And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
Then I think you misunderstood me. What is the rule? You only stated that in your opinion some would not be.
Why have you ignored my post #724?
Joseph Smith stated clearly who the “sons of perdition” are. It contradicts your claims.
You have it completely wrong. Saying thank you is not working for your salvation. It does not contribute to your salvation.
But you show quite well how the LDS spin things, misinterpret Christian doctrine and flat out obfuscate and twist what the LDS really teach and believe.
It is sad and disgusting.
I pray God will open your eyes.
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