Posted on 03/15/2010 12:07:15 PM PDT by Colofornian
Edited on 03/23/2010 6:15:31 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]
When Glenn Beck told listeners of his radio show on March 2 that they should "run as fast as you can" from any church that preached "social or economic justice" because those were code words for Communism and Nazism, he probably thought he was tweaking a few crunchy religious liberals who didn't listen to the show anyway. Instead he managed to outrage Christians in most mainline Protestant denominations, African-American congregations, Hispanic churches, and Catholics...
(Excerpt) Read more at swampland.blogs.time.com ...
fyi - i left ministry and no longer preach - that said and not to say my sermons were akin to Spurgeons, I would read the Scripture verse, go back through various translations, commentaries, and ultimately little greek or hebrew....finished with a life application (interspersed with happy clappy music and much hat passing) (sarc)
What I think of Scripture is irrelevant because I trust them speak to thelistener...much as I trusted God to hand down precisely the message we need through the generations.
so to answer - no i did not add much, if anything
I ask, if the scriptures have always been so easy to read and understand, why is there a Nicene Creed? Why are there so many different beliefs in the Christian community. I attended Evangelical Bible studies where there were almost some great knock down drag out fights because of different interpretation of the scriptures. One of the biggies is the work vs grace question. I know plenty of Evangelicals who believe that works are important to their salvation and that’s it’s not just grace alone.
one of my favorite things is a Christian dragout theological discussion - because theres passion - I see it in you as well.
why is there a nicene creed?
simply and without dragging out this post.....a stamp of definitive aspects of belief as gnosticism and other errant beliefs were creeping in. Now at this point - I expect you to play gotcha as trinitarianism didnt rear its head or wasnt specifically defined until later....but that stemmed from the need to define Scripturally the position.
Besides I’m not here to convince you of what I believe. I’m here to show you the weakness of your arguments.
well - ok
I get accused of believing I’m superior to other Christians, yet all I see in this thread are people who act like they are superior to me. They throw out verses and then they expect me to instantly see the greatness and sound rationale in their faith compared to mine.
You know - Ive been to the Palmyra temple - I live in Rochester - I was invited to go through it before it opened as a member of the local clergy. We toured, and afterwards, we were gathered for more speaking, which commenced with the local church leader telling RC's, Methodist, lutherans, episcopalians, presby's and the like that "Mormonism is the one true church"....thats a direct quote btw....and others have had similar experiences. So hence the leap is made - maybe wrongly - but thats human nature.
I hear the accusation all the time that when Mormons in their testimonies say that they “know” something, they are lying because they don’t really know, but these same accusers tell me constantly that they know that what they believe is true. pot kettle.
and that may be true - but ...a key issue is the inerrancy of the prophets.....I can claim that
Smith however, was shown to be errant on numerous occasions.....and Scripture tells us that they are not credible sources when thats the case.
bitttt
Exodus 20:3 "You shall have no other gods before [a] me.
Deuteronomy 5:7 "You shall have no other gods before [a] me.
Trinitarian nature of God
Matthew 3:16As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him. 17And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."
Matthew 17:5While he was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!"
Atonement on the Cross
1 Corinthians 1:17For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power. 18For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
Galatians 6:12Those who want to make a good impression outwardly are trying to compel you to be circumcised. The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ.
Galatians 6:14May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which[a] the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
Philippians 2:8And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death— even death on a cross!
Colossians 2:14having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross.
Once again, simple, emotional arguments. Nothing like an ad hominem. Is that what your belief system teaches? I ask since that is what you mostly do.
Rev you are aware that urroner doesn’t care what you say.
So, the Nicene Creed was produced so there could be a standard definition of what God is and His relationship with Christ and the Holy Ghost. It was produced so to stop the serious infighting within the early Christian Church. Many of the Early Church Fathers had great disagreements on that relationship and they weren’t just a bunch of Gnostics.
What I find so disturbing about the Nicene Creed is that so many Christians treat it as if it is scripture and it isn’t. The Nicene creed was produced by a bunch of men within and without the early Christian Church trying to decide for everybody else exactly what God is.
As a Mormon, I hear all the time that I’m putting my trust in the arm of man when I believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, but are not the Christians who demand that I accept a non_Biblical proclamation doing the exact same thing? They insist that the Nicene Creed isn’t a product of man, that it came from God, but that is strictly a belief that I find suspicious and very wanting.
If I am guilty of putting my faith in the arm of man because I believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God and that God spoke through him, aren’t all Christians then guilty of the same thing when they trust the writings of men like Isaiah, Moses, Paul, Peter, John, Matthew, etc?
svcw, do you care anything about what I say?
The BOM brings us a fantasy world desperately seeking proof by so called scientist stealing artifacts form unrelated cultures and civilizations...
Joseph Smith was a prophet of God and that God spoke through him, aren’t all Christians then guilty of the same thing when they trust the writings of men like Isaiah, Moses, Paul, Peter, John, Matthew
I am sadden that you put your faith in a man. I am sadden that you actually compare Joe Smith with Moses, Paul, Peter, John and Matthew. Yes, I do care.
That, we will.
All were either proven true prophets or apostles in the original sense. You need to point to their false prophecies for one - secondly - i see no indication Smith is either a restored prophet, or a re-continuation of the apostolic line you claim ceased with the death of Christs immediate apostles.
To the contrary with Mormonism, we see Smith elevating himself above the apostles and above the Church
I'll spare you the direct quote for brevity
Im with you on the Nicene being thought of as "scriptural" or leastways elevated on the same par......I see it instead as a tool of man to define the understanding of the Godhead...based in Scripture...
Where are the gold plates?
Not surprised, I think we would probably get along real well, IRL.
Want to get together for a beer sometime?
Acceptance of Grace is not a work, neither is prayer. God will change your heart but you still have the free will to disobey or ignore the promptings of the Spirit.
Your choice. I do believe we can choose to be disobedient to God. A common phrase of conversion is ‘sweetly broken’. Broken enough to cry out to Jesus and know you can’t do anything of your own free will, even ‘choose the right’ without Him changing your heart.
If you haven’t been there, I can’t explain it. A personal relationship is beyond words, it must be experienced.
All I can do is pray that God will break you.
I get accused of believing I’m superior to other Christians
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Well that would not have happened in these threads...
First you would have to be a Christian...
Hi Nana ;)
snap
Most excellent dodge. You are the one saying that the Bible is infallible and that God preserved His word perfectly, but other than using circular logic and suppositions, without the autographs, how can you begin to even demonstrate that?
You state the inerrancy of the Bible as if it was a fact known to all and should be accepted without being questioned, but when all is said and done, it’s a matter of faith and not of a known fact.
A&W Root Beer. The ambrosia of the gods.
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