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Rev 911, so what it seems to me that you are really saying is that nobody ever needs to explain the scriptures. Do you explain scriptures in any of your sermons or are the sermons just a simple reading of the scriptures without commentary.

fyi - i left ministry and no longer preach - that said and not to say my sermons were akin to Spurgeons, I would read the Scripture verse, go back through various translations, commentaries, and ultimately little greek or hebrew....finished with a life application (interspersed with happy clappy music and much hat passing) (sarc)

What I think of Scripture is irrelevant because I trust them speak to thelistener...much as I trusted God to hand down precisely the message we need through the generations.

so to answer - no i did not add much, if anything

I ask, if the scriptures have always been so easy to read and understand, why is there a Nicene Creed? Why are there so many different beliefs in the Christian community. I attended Evangelical Bible studies where there were almost some great knock down drag out fights because of different interpretation of the scriptures. One of the biggies is the work vs grace question. I know plenty of Evangelicals who believe that works are important to their salvation and that’s it’s not just grace alone.

one of my favorite things is a Christian dragout theological discussion - because theres passion - I see it in you as well.

why is there a nicene creed?

simply and without dragging out this post.....a stamp of definitive aspects of belief as gnosticism and other errant beliefs were creeping in. Now at this point - I expect you to play gotcha as trinitarianism didnt rear its head or wasnt specifically defined until later....but that stemmed from the need to define Scripturally the position.

Besides I’m not here to convince you of what I believe. I’m here to show you the weakness of your arguments.

well - ok

I get accused of believing I’m superior to other Christians, yet all I see in this thread are people who act like they are superior to me. They throw out verses and then they expect me to instantly see the greatness and sound rationale in their faith compared to mine.

You know - Ive been to the Palmyra temple - I live in Rochester - I was invited to go through it before it opened as a member of the local clergy. We toured, and afterwards, we were gathered for more speaking, which commenced with the local church leader telling RC's, Methodist, lutherans, episcopalians, presby's and the like that "Mormonism is the one true church"....thats a direct quote btw....and others have had similar experiences. So hence the leap is made - maybe wrongly - but thats human nature.

I hear the accusation all the time that when Mormons in their testimonies say that they “know” something, they are lying because they don’t really know, but these same accusers tell me constantly that they know that what they believe is true. pot kettle.

and that may be true - but ...a key issue is the inerrancy of the prophets.....I can claim that

Smith however, was shown to be errant on numerous occasions.....and Scripture tells us that they are not credible sources when thats the case.

So, the Nicene Creed was produced so there could be a standard definition of what God is and His relationship with Christ and the Holy Ghost. It was produced so to stop the serious infighting within the early Christian Church. Many of the Early Church Fathers had great disagreements on that relationship and they weren’t just a bunch of Gnostics.

What I find so disturbing about the Nicene Creed is that so many Christians treat it as if it is scripture and it isn’t. The Nicene creed was produced by a bunch of men within and without the early Christian Church trying to decide for everybody else exactly what God is.

As a Mormon, I hear all the time that I’m putting my trust in the arm of man when I believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, but are not the Christians who demand that I accept a non_Biblical proclamation doing the exact same thing? They insist that the Nicene Creed isn’t a product of man, that it came from God, but that is strictly a belief that I find suspicious and very wanting.

If I am guilty of putting my faith in the arm of man because I believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God and that God spoke through him, aren’t all Christians then guilty of the same thing when they trust the writings of men like Isaiah, Moses, Paul, Peter, John, Matthew, etc?