Posted on 03/04/2010 11:33:04 AM PST by Between the Lines
Prominent U.S. Pastor of Grace Community Church, John MacArthur, teaches his congregation that we must be subject to the civil authorities even to Hitler or Stalin
Contact: Steve Klein, 951-492-8753, steve@kleinus.com; www.altarorabolish.com
LOS ANGELES, March 4 /Christian Newswire/ -- Using Nehemiah as an example, Concerned Citizens for the First Amendment have notified the Mayor, 15 City Council Members, the City Attorney and the Police Chief of Los Angeles they will go to the public sidewalks at Grace Community Church in accordance with the First Amendment to ask why Pastor John MacArthur would teach his people to be subject to Hitler or Stalin. Grace Community Church is located at 13248 Roscoe Blvd., Los Angeles, Ca 91352, the group will be there from 6:30 - 7:15 PM.
Concerned Citizens for the First Amendment note there are three (3) reasons why they are doing this:
1. To educate citizens about the First Amendment.
2. To familiarize all citizens with our cherished First Amendment rights.
3. To educate all who follow John MacArthur that his statement that we must obey Hitler or Stalin is not in accordance with the Constitution of the United States or the Holy Bible.
John MacArthur's words are memorialized at www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/56-23.htm : "Now listen to this. It doesn't matter whether your ruler is Caesar, Herod, Pilate, Felix, Fetus, Agrippa, Stalin, Hitler, Winston Churchill, Bill Clinton, it doesn't matter who it is, he says be subject, you teach them to be subject."
-snip-
But let's take point one...remember your duty. What is our duty? We may be hurt. We may be disappointed. We may be angry as we watch the vestiges of Christian influence die. We may be angry at what we see happening in the courts and in the congresses and the executive offices of our land. What is our response? We may not agree with the decisions that they are making. Here's what he says. "Remind them to be subject to rulers, to authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good deed, to malign no one, to be uncontentious, gentle, showing every consideration for all men." Seven virtues are listed there. Seven virtues. Now listen to this. It doesn't matter whether your ruler is Caesar, Herod, Pilate, Felix, Fetus, Agrippa, Stalin, Hitler, Winston Churchill, Bill Clinton, it doesn't matter who it is, he says be subject, you teach them to be subject.
-end snip-
To the headline: NO
Now we can vote them out when they displease us. St. Paul wrote this before the concept of democratically elected leaders came about. The world of St. Paul’s time was for the most part under Oriental Despotism.
And MacArthur would agree with you on that point.
There comes a point in time when the state turns against the church and tells the church not to do what God has mandated to do, then we have to obey God and suffer the consequence...be it prison or death. The only time we disobey is when we have been mandated by Scripture to do something we are forbidden to do or not to do something we are being compelled to do. We are obedient.
Try reading the entire surmon.
“Sorry, but as a Christian, I am under no obligation to submit to any authority that requires me to do something sinful or is sinful itself.
Case in point: if I were a German citizen in Germany in the late 30’s or in the 40’s, and I knew the atrocities going on by the government, it would be well within the rules/laws/context of the Bible for me to resist the government and to do my utmost to defeat it.
“
Woe to the slavers and indian killers that built this country for us!
When I was a young Christian years ago, I would listen to hours and hours of teaching on Christian radio.
There were some way off nut cases, some solid Biblical Teaching, some Old Fashioned Gospel Music, End Times Prophecies, Some “Prosperity” Teaching, J. Vernon MaGee, Jimmy Swaggert, just about everything you could imagine.
Whenever John MacArthur’s “Grace to You” program came on, I would brace myself, because I knew he would say SOMETHING that would have a profound disconnect with COMMON SENSE! Not to mention acute feelings of condemnation and doubting of one’s own salvation.
But he did it with such erudition and authority!
The Lutheran Church in Germany during WW2 is still trying to atone for “being in submission to governing authorities”.
But as for me, Give me a Deitrich Bonheoffer!
Jesus did that a lot also.
Are you saying that MacArthur’s interpretation of Scripture carry’s the SAME WEIGHT as that of JESUS???????????????
When he quotes Scripture, he is speaking the Word of God.
When he INTERPRETS, he is speaking the word of John MacArthur.
Peace, brother.
Why yes, that is exactly what I was saying. /sarc
Seriously, that is what you got from what I posted????? Let me try to simplify:
I was just reading between the lines.
Stage 1: Be strip searched at the airports. And, yes, you ARE being strip searched, even if only by machine. Remember, there’s somebody on the other end of that machine, looking at your naked body.
Stage 2: What’s next??
Go on a diet. Lift weights. Try to look good naked.
Were Christians subject to Hitler? Bonhoeffer was not. He died because of it.
Tell that to the Tenbom family, where all but Corrie were killed by the Nazis.
Scripture tells us to submit to authority for there is no authority except that which comes from God.
The question only becomes relevant if the government orders you to sin.. If you are ordered to have an abortion, or murder a jew.. etc.. at that point you have a spiritual right and duty to refuse, but then you must take the punishment from the government in humility that comes with that refusal .
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