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Are We as Citizens to be Subject to Civil Authorities Such as Adolph Hitler or Joseph Stalin
Christian News Wire ^ | March 4, 2010 | Steve Klein

Posted on 03/04/2010 11:33:04 AM PST by Between the Lines

Are We as Citizens to be Subject to Civil Authorities Such as Adolph Hitler or Joseph Stalin

Prominent U.S. Pastor of Grace Community Church, John MacArthur, teaches his congregation that we must be subject to the civil authorities even to Hitler or Stalin

Contact: Steve Klein, 951-492-8753, steve@kleinus.comwww.altarorabolish.com

LOS ANGELES, March 4 /Christian Newswire/ -- Using Nehemiah as an example, Concerned Citizens for the First Amendment have notified the Mayor, 15 City Council Members, the City Attorney and the Police Chief of Los Angeles they will go to the public sidewalks at Grace Community Church in accordance with the First Amendment to ask why Pastor John MacArthur would teach his people to be subject to Hitler or Stalin.  Grace Community Church is located at 13248 Roscoe Blvd., Los Angeles, Ca 91352, the group will be there from 6:30 - 7:15 PM.

Concerned Citizens for the First Amendment note there are three (3) reasons why they  are doing this:

1. To educate citizens about the First Amendment.

2. To familiarize all citizens with our cherished First Amendment rights.

3. To educate all who follow John MacArthur that his statement that we must obey Hitler or Stalin is  not in accordance with the Constitution of the United States or the Holy Bible.

John MacArthur's words are memorialized at www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/56-23.htm : "Now listen to this. It doesn't matter whether your ruler is Caesar, Herod, Pilate, Felix, Fetus, Agrippa, Stalin, Hitler, Winston Churchill, Bill Clinton, it doesn't matter who it is, he says be subject, you teach them to be subject."


TOPICS: Current Events; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: john; macarthur
MacArthur's words:

-snip-

But let's take point one...remember your duty. What is our duty? We may be hurt. We may be disappointed. We may be angry as we watch the vestiges of Christian influence die. We may be angry at what we see happening in the courts and in the congresses and the executive offices of our land. What is our response? We may not agree with the decisions that they are making. Here's what he says. "Remind them to be subject to rulers, to authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good deed, to malign no one, to be uncontentious, gentle, showing every consideration for all men." Seven virtues are listed there. Seven virtues. Now listen to this. It doesn't matter whether your ruler is Caesar, Herod, Pilate, Felix, Fetus, Agrippa, Stalin, Hitler, Winston Churchill, Bill Clinton, it doesn't matter who it is, he says be subject, you teach them to be subject.

-end snip-

1 posted on 03/04/2010 11:33:04 AM PST by Between the Lines
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To: Between the Lines

To the headline: NO


2 posted on 03/04/2010 11:36:08 AM PST by svcw (If you are going to quote the Bible know what you are quoting.)
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To: Between the Lines
But let's take point one...remember your duty. What is our duty? We may be hurt. We may be disappointed. We may be angry as we watch the vestiges of Christian influence die. We may be angry at what we see happening in the courts and in the congresses and the executive offices of our land. What is our response? We may not agree with the decisions that they are making. Here's what he says. "Remind them to be subject to rulers, to authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good deed, to malign no one, to be uncontentious, gentle, showing every consideration for all men." Seven virtues are listed there. Seven virtues. Now listen to this. It doesn't matter whether your ruler is Caesar, Herod, Pilate, Felix, Fetus, Agrippa, Stalin, Hitler, Winston Churchill, Bill Clinton, it doesn't matter who it is, he says be subject, you teach them to be subject.

Sorry, but as a Christian, I am under no obligation to submit to any authority that requires me to do something sinful or is sinful itself.

Case in point: if I were a German citizen in Germany in the late 30's or in the 40's, and I knew the atrocities going on by the government, it would be well within the rules/laws/context of the Bible for me to resist the government and to do my utmost to defeat it.

In fact, to do otherwise, would sacrifice my relationship with Christ, and therefore, my Christianity.

This author takes scripture out of context and then spews out an ignorant opinion.

All scripture should be read and implemented in your own life in context of the whole bible, not just isolated scriptures.
3 posted on 03/04/2010 11:47:21 AM PST by SoConPubbie
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To: Between the Lines

Now we can vote them out when they displease us. St. Paul wrote this before the concept of democratically elected leaders came about. The world of St. Paul’s time was for the most part under Oriental Despotism.


4 posted on 03/04/2010 11:48:15 AM PST by DarthVader (Liberalism is the politics of EVIL whose time of judgment has come.)
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To: SoConPubbie
Sorry, but as a Christian, I am under no obligation to submit to any authority that requires me to do something sinful or is sinful itself.

And MacArthur would agree with you on that point.

This author takes scripture out of context and then spews out an ignorant opinion.

Try reading the entire surmon.

"The Christian's Responsibility In a Pagan Society--Part 1"

"The Christian's Responsibility In a Pagan Society--Part 2"

5 posted on 03/04/2010 12:38:17 PM PST by Between the Lines (AreYouWhoYouSayYouAre? Esse Quam Videri - To Be, Rather Than To Seem)
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To: SoConPubbie

“Sorry, but as a Christian, I am under no obligation to submit to any authority that requires me to do something sinful or is sinful itself.

Case in point: if I were a German citizen in Germany in the late 30’s or in the 40’s, and I knew the atrocities going on by the government, it would be well within the rules/laws/context of the Bible for me to resist the government and to do my utmost to defeat it.

Woe to the slavers and indian killers that built this country for us!


6 posted on 03/04/2010 12:52:27 PM PST by Unassuaged (I have shocking data relevant to the conversation!)
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To: Between the Lines

When I was a young Christian years ago, I would listen to hours and hours of teaching on Christian radio.

There were some way off nut cases, some solid Biblical Teaching, some Old Fashioned Gospel Music, End Times Prophecies, Some “Prosperity” Teaching, J. Vernon MaGee, Jimmy Swaggert, just about everything you could imagine.

Whenever John MacArthur’s “Grace to You” program came on, I would brace myself, because I knew he would say SOMETHING that would have a profound disconnect with COMMON SENSE! Not to mention acute feelings of condemnation and doubting of one’s own salvation.

But he did it with such erudition and authority!

The Lutheran Church in Germany during WW2 is still trying to atone for “being in submission to governing authorities”.

But as for me, Give me a Deitrich Bonheoffer!


7 posted on 03/04/2010 1:50:30 PM PST by left that other site (Your Mi'KMaq Paddy Whacky Bass Playing Biker Buddy)
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To: left that other site
because I knew he would say SOMETHING that would have a profound disconnect with COMMON SENSE!

Jesus did that a lot also.

8 posted on 03/04/2010 2:02:38 PM PST by Between the Lines (AreYouWhoYouSayYouAre? Esse Quam Videri - To Be, Rather Than To Seem)
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To: left that other site
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietrich_Bonhoeffer


9 posted on 03/04/2010 2:04:00 PM PST by left that other site (Your Mi'KMaq Paddy Whacky Bass Playing Biker Buddy)
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To: Between the Lines

Are you saying that MacArthur’s interpretation of Scripture carry’s the SAME WEIGHT as that of JESUS???????????????

When he quotes Scripture, he is speaking the Word of God.

When he INTERPRETS, he is speaking the word of John MacArthur.

Peace, brother.


10 posted on 03/04/2010 2:07:38 PM PST by left that other site (Your Mi'KMaq Paddy Whacky Bass Playing Biker Buddy)
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To: left that other site
Are you saying that MacArthur's interpretation of Scripture carry’s the SAME WEIGHT as that of JESUS???????????????

Why yes, that is exactly what I was saying. /sarc

Seriously, that is what you got from what I posted????? Let me try to simplify:


11 posted on 03/04/2010 2:35:18 PM PST by Between the Lines (AreYouWhoYouSayYouAre? Esse Quam Videri - To Be, Rather Than To Seem)
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To: Between the Lines

I was just reading between the lines.


12 posted on 03/04/2010 2:37:18 PM PST by left that other site (Your Mi'KMaq Paddy Whacky Bass Playing Biker Buddy)
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To: Between the Lines

Stage 1: Be strip searched at the airports. And, yes, you ARE being strip searched, even if only by machine. Remember, there’s somebody on the other end of that machine, looking at your naked body.

Stage 2: What’s next??


13 posted on 03/04/2010 10:00:30 PM PST by my_pointy_head_is_sharp (Message to the Feds: Get your stinkin' mitts off my vitamins!!!)
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp
Stage 2: What’s next??

Go on a diet. Lift weights. Try to look good naked.

14 posted on 03/04/2010 10:19:06 PM PST by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: Between the Lines

Were Christians subject to Hitler? Bonhoeffer was not. He died because of it.


15 posted on 03/05/2010 7:44:22 PM PST by LouAvul
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To: Between the Lines

Tell that to the Tenbom family, where all but Corrie were killed by the Nazis.


16 posted on 03/05/2010 9:10:18 PM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: Between the Lines
Render to Caesar what is Caesars and to God what is God... Did not Jesus and the apostles submit to an unjust murderous Roman empire? Did not He say to Pilate" Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above:"?

Scripture tells us to submit to authority for there is no authority except that which comes from God.

The question only becomes relevant if the government orders you to sin.. If you are ordered to have an abortion, or murder a jew.. etc.. at that point you have a spiritual right and duty to refuse, but then you must take the punishment from the government in humility that comes with that refusal .

17 posted on 03/06/2010 7:01:38 AM PST by RnMomof7
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