[Between the Lines]

MacArthur's words:

-snip-

But let's take point one...remember your duty. What is our duty? We may be hurt. We may be disappointed. We may be angry as we watch the vestiges of Christian influence die. We may be angry at what we see happening in the courts and in the congresses and the executive offices of our land. What is our response? We may not agree with the decisions that they are making. Here's what he says. "Remind them to be subject to rulers, to authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good deed, to malign no one, to be uncontentious, gentle, showing every consideration for all men." Seven virtues are listed there. Seven virtues. Now listen to this. It doesn't matter whether your ruler is Caesar, Herod, Pilate, Felix, Fetus, Agrippa, Stalin, Hitler, Winston Churchill, Bill Clinton, it doesn't matter who it is, he says be subject, you teach them to be subject.

-end snip-

[svcw]

To the headline: NO

[SoConPubbie]

But let's take point one...remember your duty. What is our duty? We may be hurt. We may be disappointed. We may be angry as we watch the vestiges of Christian influence die. We may be angry at what we see happening in the courts and in the congresses and the executive offices of our land. What is our response? We may not agree with the decisions that they are making. Here's what he says. "Remind them to be subject to rulers, to authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good deed, to malign no one, to be uncontentious, gentle, showing every consideration for all men." Seven virtues are listed there. Seven virtues. Now listen to this. It doesn't matter whether your ruler is Caesar, Herod, Pilate, Felix, Fetus, Agrippa, Stalin, Hitler, Winston Churchill, Bill Clinton, it doesn't matter who it is, he says be subject, you teach them to be subject.

Sorry, but as a Christian, I am under no obligation to submit to any authority that requires me to do something sinful or is sinful itself.

Case in point: if I were a German citizen in Germany in the late 30's or in the 40's, and I knew the atrocities going on by the government, it would be well within the rules/laws/context of the Bible for me to resist the government and to do my utmost to defeat it.

In fact, to do otherwise, would sacrifice my relationship with Christ, and therefore, my Christianity.

This author takes scripture out of context and then spews out an ignorant opinion.

All scripture should be read and implemented in your own life in context of the whole bible, not just isolated scriptures.

[DarthVader]

Now we can vote them out when they displease us. St. Paul wrote this before the concept of democratically elected leaders came about. The world of St. Paul’s time was for the most part under Oriental Despotism.

[left that other site]

When I was a young Christian years ago, I would listen to hours and hours of teaching on Christian radio.

There were some way off nut cases, some solid Biblical Teaching, some Old Fashioned Gospel Music, End Times Prophecies, Some “Prosperity” Teaching, J. Vernon MaGee, Jimmy Swaggert, just about everything you could imagine.

Whenever John MacArthur’s “Grace to You” program came on, I would brace myself, because I knew he would say SOMETHING that would have a profound disconnect with COMMON SENSE! Not to mention acute feelings of condemnation and doubting of one’s own salvation.

But he did it with such erudition and authority!

The Lutheran Church in Germany during WW2 is still trying to atone for “being in submission to governing authorities”.

But as for me, Give me a Deitrich Bonheoffer!

[my_pointy_head_is_sharp]

Stage 1: Be strip searched at the airports. And, yes, you ARE being strip searched, even if only by machine. Remember, there’s somebody on the other end of that machine, looking at your naked body.

Stage 2: What’s next??

[LouAvul]

Were Christians subject to Hitler? Bonhoeffer was not. He died because of it.

[Godzilla]

Tell that to the Tenbom family, where all but Corrie were killed by the Nazis.

[RnMomof7]

Render to Caesar what is Caesars and to God what is God... Did not Jesus and the apostles submit to an unjust murderous Roman empire? Did not He say to Pilate" Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above:"?

Scripture tells us to submit to authority for there is no authority except that which comes from God.

The question only becomes relevant if the government orders you to sin.. If you are ordered to have an abortion, or murder a jew.. etc.. at that point you have a spiritual right and duty to refuse, but then you must take the punishment from the government in humility that comes with that refusal .