Posted on 02/19/2010 5:07:29 PM PST by bogusname
Roman Catholic theology often parallels Mary the mother of Jesus with Jesus Himself in His work of redemption. For example, Jesus is born without the stain of original sin, and so is Mary. Jesus lives a sinless life; so does Mary. Jesus remains a virgin all His life; Mary is Ever-Virgin. Jesus is the Redeemer; Mary is Co-Redemptress. Jesus is the one Mediator between man and God, yet Mary, too, is Mediatrix. Jesus is bodily assumed into heaven; so is Mary. Ascribing Christological attributes such as these to Mary historically has been a source of contention between Protestants (who see no basis in Scripture for these beliefs), and Roman Catholics (who emphasize the role of “Tradition” in these matters).
Defining Terms. All of these beliefs, save two, are official Roman Catholic dogmas. The exceptions— Co-Redemptress and Mediatrix—are nevertheless hallmarks of Roman Catholic devoutness that many believe to be ripe for dogmatic definition.
These two titles, often considered as a single role for Mary, are technically distinct. Redemptress broadly involves Mary’s active decision to bring redemption to the world by agreeing to become the mother of Jesus, whereas Mediatrix has to do with Mary’s active work in continually advocating for the salvation of those who take refuge in her. The Roman Catholic teaching for both is summed up well in the document Ineffabilis Deus: “All our hope do we repose in the most Blessed Virgin—in the all fair and immaculate one who has crushed the poisonous head of the most cruel serpent and brought salvation to the world [hence, Redemptress];... in her who, with her only-begotten Son, is the most powerful Mediatrix and Conciliatrix in the whole world;...in her do we hope who has delivered us from so many threatening dangers.”
(Excerpt) Read more at equip.org ...
Co-redemptrix is Latin, Einstein, not English. Try and keep up.
and we'd still get the drift from the usage in thousands of documents.
IT'S UNMITIGATED NONSENSE to pretend that NON-ROMAN CATHOLICS ET AL; NON VATICAN AFFILIATES ET AL; NON-MARY'S HANKIES ET AL
Can use words so exhaustively, so extensively, so outrageously . . . and pretend that their usage thereby doesn't mean what the usage clearly shows the words to mean BY THOSE WRITING & SPEAKING THE SENTENCES.
It seems to me that JW's are the only other cult . . . unless maybe it's Scientology and some shades of Mormanism . . . that's so abjectly willfully blind obtuse about such things.
This is not quite sacred underwear . . . it's a sacred rubber dictionary.
WOW.
Considering the source, that’s pretty great flattery.
Thanks.
Thank you for the post. She is also now “the firstborn of Creation”, totally unbiblical as the Catholic Church has used her to usurp every title that belongs only and rightfully to Christ.
The English phrase has roots entirely in Latin, Petronski, and so splitting hairs between one or the other does not alter the meaning.
But, just running with this for a second, if in fact "co-" merely means "with," as several have stated, then why the feminine form of Redeemer? It makes no sense, linguistically, unless the intended meaning is "with the female Redeemer." Clearly, the intended meaning is not that.
Therefore, "co-redemptrix" means the female partner in Redemption, which is the meaning that you and others are at pains to avoid, apparently due to the faint recognition that such a belief is absolutely contrary to the Bible, in which Redemption is through Jesus Christ alone.
It means what it's proponents say it means.
You do not get to redefine it.
What we are discussing is the “word of God”. I doubt you are you denying the word of God?
We don’t have first hand knowledge the same as we don’t have first hand knowledge about Washington or Lincoln but we believe through written ad verbal history...and faith.
Each have lived relative to each other to have witnessed among themselves. It was a rather small world and first hand knowledge was possible,
St polycarp lived A.D. 69-155
Irenaeus lived around 2nd century AD - c. 202
St Paul lived 5 BC - c.67 AD) St Paul
John the Apostle lie (c. 6 - c. 100
They are closer to Christ in time-frame than we were or are to Washington or Lincoln. I believe Iranus or Polycarp are as believable historically as Washington or Lincoln are historically.
ble
Alright. I'll play along. You're a proponent, apparently. So, please define the Latin phrase "co-redemptrix" in English, with clear reference to the acknowledged meaning of the Latin prefix "co-" as well as the word "redemptrix" with clear reference to the Latin root "redemptio." And, please clarify the reasoning and intent behind the use of the feminine form of "Redeemer."
Should be simple enough, right?
The only comment I have on this issue is this, and it is in the form of a question. If Mary held such an important role in the Church, why was she never talked about by the Apostles in their writings? EVER!
Her 'super-important' role never preached about by the early Church? EVER!
Only one brief introduction in the Book of Romans and she was far from being the first introduced. Even then, the only mention in the introduction was that of labour.
I saw where Quix said he hopes it is a huge kettle of corn. I have to agree!
BTW, I think panzerkamphwageneinz said it best in post #7.
"Mary delivered Jesus so that Jesus could deliver Mary."
-houeto.
So were the soldiers that nailed him to the cross.
You do not get to redefine it.
= = = =
Ahhhhhhhhhh
Sooooooooooooo
in the interest of lack of hypocrisy . . . does this now mean that
you are conceding that
you do not get to redefine Protty terms and usag?
What a miracle!
If it were Latin, then shouldn't it be cum-redemptrix?
I have never attempted to do such.
The woman with the Redeemer.
lol. That is a GREAT response.
Good thing we don’t worship Luther.
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