Posted on 02/15/2010 10:15:24 AM PST by colorcountry
The Gospel Principles 2009 manual essentially calls classical Christianity “false Christianity” and its theology of God “pagan” and its adherents those who are “called” Christian.
If we talked about Mormon beliefs and Mormonism and Mormon members this way, we’d get priesthood-slapped.
Yes, you heard me right. Let me explain.
In chapter 16 it implicitly taps into popular assumptions about Nicaea and then says that “false Christianity” (that the “Roman emperor adopted”) “taught that God was a being without form or substance.”
My first reaction was that the New Testament teaches that Jesus is the image of the invisible God, and that God is spirit, etc.
But then it struck me: WAIT, did a 2009 LDS Church manual just make a delineation between true and FALSE Christianity partly the basis of teaching that “God was a being without [spatial] form or [material] substance”?
Mormonism has been complaining for a long while now that anyone should make pronouncements about what is and what is not true Christianity. But here we have it in the 2009 manual: Mormonism has essentially fired a shot at Roman Catholicism, Protestantism, and Eastern Orthodoxy as being “false Christianity” for teaching the “pagan”[1] idea that “God [is] a being without form or substance.”
Here is the quote (with emphasis added):
Soon pagan beliefs dominated the thinking of those called Christians. The Roman emperor adopted this false Christianity as the state religion. This church was very different from the church Jesus organized. It taught that God was a being without form or substance.
Make no mistake, the manual is not doing ALL of what Mormons complain that the wide range of countercultists do, but it is hypocritically doing a great deal of it. The manual digs its criticism in by calling these people with pagan beliefs those “called Christians”. It in effect is calling them so-called Christians. So the manual isn’t merely criticizing the religious systems (which teach God is spirit and not a material substance) as false Christianity; it is also suggest its adherents are merely “called” Christians.
Ask yourselves, what kind of vehement reaction do evangelicals get when we speak of Lorenzo Snow couplet theology as “pagan” and of Mormonism as “false Christianity”[2] and of Mormons as those “called” Christians? Look, I don’t believe it’s inherently wrong to say someone’s beliefs are pagan, or that a religion is a false Christianity, or that many of its adherents are only called Christians[3]. Mormonism is a false Christianity with pagan beliefs and with many adherents that are merely “called” Christians. But I’ve been given a lot of grief for saying those kinds of things, with the premise that saying such things is unethical. I just am calling out the LDS Church for its hypocrisy on this.
I would rather that they just get all McConkie on us[4]. We’re big boys. The more cards we have out on the table the easier it can be for us to tackle the big issues!
[1] Ironically, at other times in Mormon history the “pagan” concept of God has been glorified, not criticized.
[2] When the GP manual essentially says traditional Christianity has “pagan beilefs” and is a “false Christianity”, it isn’t flattering. It might help some Mormons feel better to explain, “But hey, it didn’t say traditional Christianity is non-Christianity, it just says it is FALSE Christianity”, but it seems like an exercise in missing the point. At the colloquial level evangelicals don’t make a big distinction between the two. I’m reminded of Paul in Galatians 1 who said he was disturbed that people were turning to a “different gospel”. Paul immediately then says, “not that there is another one”. That’s how I feel about “false” Christianity. Like Paul can speak of a “different” gospel that is no gospel at all, I can speak of a different, false Christianity that in theological essence is no Christianity at all. But that’s not all that can be said on the issue. I would agree with Rob Bowman’s articulation elsewhere that Mormonism is within sociological Christianity but not within the Biblically theological Christianity. Inasmuch as Christianity is a historical, sociologically identified movement that is marked by a general focus and devotion to the historical person of Jesus, Mormonism is Christian. But inasmuch as Christianity is the body of believers that is faithful to the essential doctrines taught in the Bible, Mormonism is not Christian.
[3] It would however be wrong to stereotype all Mormons as non-Christians. Not all Mormons believe in the distinctives of traditional Mormonism, and frankly some Mormons are struggling evangelicals-in-embryo.
[4] “You talk about teaching false doctrine and being damned. Here is a list of false doctrines that if anyone teaches he will be damned. And there is not one of these that I have ever known to be taught in the Church, but I am giving you the list for a perspective because of what will follow. Teach that God is a Spirit, the sectarian trinity. Teach that salvation comes by grace alone, without works. Teach original guilt, or birth sin, as they express it. Teach infant baptism. Teach predestination. Teach that revelation and gifts and miracles have ceased. Teach the Adam-God theory (that does apply in the Church). Teach that we should practice plural marriage today. Now, any of those are doctrines that damn” (Sermons and Writings of Bruce R. McConkie, p.337).
Okay Christians, it's official. Mormons are calling you "pagan" for your beliefs in Christ.
Who dares to refute this charge?
Ping
I’ll take Biblical Christianity over Mormonism any day. (Mormons believe that Jesus and Satan are brothers and Jesus is from the planet Nibiru.
As a Catholic, I do not care what some Mormons say or feel about Christianity as long as they do not view me as an infidel and want to behead me.
They’ve been doing this ever since the lds religion was created by Joseph Smith. But to see them openly teaching it in Sunday school, is taking it to a another level.
The fact that many Christians;, Catholics, Protestants, etc. refused to address this blasphemy because they’re “such great neighbors, patriots, people, etc.” the lds have responded with a “shot across the bow” so to speak.
How the “those who call themselves Christian” community responds to this will be telling. How much are they willing to “compromise” with the lds?
Nibiru?
Actually Mormons believe that God lives near a planet named Kolob which is near the sun.
But you’re right, it is totally heretical and makes them non-Christian.
What is strange is that here in their official publication they are calling us who are Christian, “so called Christians” or “pagans”. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. It is either us or them. Christian either is a belief in the Biblical Christ or a belief in the Mormon Christ.
Why are so many Christians remiss in defending their faith from the onslaught of attack by Mormonism? Why?
So what they are saying here is not just some guy over 100 years ago, its just last year.
Really, as a Catholic you refuse to take up defense of your doctrine? I’m surprised.
I'm sorry what?
Yep, this isn’t ancient history of 100 years ago. This comes straight form the Church Office Building and is official doctrine THIS YEAR.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Well this thread wont last long...
Not the same Jesus
“There are those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints do not believe in the traditional Christ.
No, I don’t. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak.”
– LDS President Gordon B. Hinckley (LDS Church News, June 20, 1998)
“It is true that many of the Christian churches worship a different Jesus Christ than is worshipped by the Mormons.” – LDS publication, Ensign Magazine, May 1977, p. 26
“The Gospel Principles 2009 manual essentially calls classical Christianity “false Christianity” and its theology of God “pagan” and its adherents those who are “called” Christian.
In chapter 16 it implicitly taps into popular assumptions about Nicaea and then says that “false Christianity” (that the “Roman emperor adopted”) “taught that God was a being without form or substance.” “ (Aaron Shafovaloff, Mormon Research ministry, February 15, 2010)
This will be news to the Jesus of the Christian Jesus...
or not...
Matthew 24:23-24
For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible.
Matthew 7:15
“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
Matthew 24:10-11
10. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other,
11. and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.
Mark 13:21-22
21. At that time if anyone says to you, `Look, here is the Christ!’ or, `Look, there he is!’ do not believe it.
22. For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect—if that were possible.
2 Peter 2:1
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.
1 John 4:1
Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
Sorta puts an “oh, snap” in the posters who claim we only talk about resent ancient history.
To what end is my defense? I prefer to focus on the positive than to spend time on negativity (again, unless those attacking me present danger).
Because there are many luke-warm Christians today that actually believe/think that Mormons are Christians since they are anti-abortion, etc.
Mormonism is a cult, plain and simple. The whole cult is founded on one verse in the Bible: “I have other sheep who hear my voice...”. Christ is of course referring to Gentiles, not mormons.
The Gospel Principles 2009 manual essentially calls classical Christianity “false Christianity” and its theology of God “pagan” and its adherents those who are “called” Christian.
If we talked about Mormon beliefs and Mormonism and Mormon members this way, we’d get priesthood-slapped.
If I talked about Mormons this way in my church, I’d be agreed with but also told that you do not debate anyone to the true Christ, you love them to Him.
How do Catholics feel about the blasphemy of the mormons where they claim the Virgin Mary had physical sex with the mormon god in order to conceive the mormon jesus ???
“Actually Mormons believe that God lives near a planet named Kolob which is near the sun.”
Which we cannot see with the magic hat?
Jude wrote that we are to defend the faith, once for all delivered to the Saints (Jude 1:3). Too often the church is poorly prepared equipped or willing to have dialogue with Mormons.
I wonder why? Defend the faith? Nah, not if it isn’t going to get me beheaded we’ll just leave them alone to send out 60,0000 missionaries, most of whom are targeting un-schooled Catholics in Central and South America-——no skin off my teeth — that is until it comes to my own physical harm and then I become highly interested?
“Why are so many Christians remiss in defending their faith from the onslaught of attack by Mormonism? Why?”
Most do not see the need to defend the faith, vengeance is the Lords’, not ours.
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