Okay Christians, it's official. Mormons are calling you "pagan" for your beliefs in Christ.
Who dares to refute this charge?
Ping
I’ll take Biblical Christianity over Mormonism any day. (Mormons believe that Jesus and Satan are brothers and Jesus is from the planet Nibiru.
They’ve been doing this ever since the lds religion was created by Joseph Smith. But to see them openly teaching it in Sunday school, is taking it to a another level.
The fact that many Christians;, Catholics, Protestants, etc. refused to address this blasphemy because they’re “such great neighbors, patriots, people, etc.” the lds have responded with a “shot across the bow” so to speak.
How the “those who call themselves Christian” community responds to this will be telling. How much are they willing to “compromise” with the lds?
So what they are saying here is not just some guy over 100 years ago, its just last year.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Well this thread wont last long...
Not the same Jesus
“There are those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints do not believe in the traditional Christ.
No, I don’t. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak.”
– LDS President Gordon B. Hinckley (LDS Church News, June 20, 1998)
“It is true that many of the Christian churches worship a different Jesus Christ than is worshipped by the Mormons.” – LDS publication, Ensign Magazine, May 1977, p. 26
“The Gospel Principles 2009 manual essentially calls classical Christianity “false Christianity” and its theology of God “pagan” and its adherents those who are “called” Christian.
In chapter 16 it implicitly taps into popular assumptions about Nicaea and then says that “false Christianity” (that the “Roman emperor adopted”) “taught that God was a being without form or substance.” “ (Aaron Shafovaloff, Mormon Research ministry, February 15, 2010)
This will be news to the Jesus of the Christian Jesus...
or not...
Matthew 24:23-24
For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible.
Matthew 7:15
“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
Matthew 24:10-11
10. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other,
11. and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.
Mark 13:21-22
21. At that time if anyone says to you, `Look, here is the Christ!’ or, `Look, there he is!’ do not believe it.
22. For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect—if that were possible.
2 Peter 2:1
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.
1 John 4:1
Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
The Gospel Principles 2009 manual essentially calls classical Christianity “false Christianity” and its theology of God “pagan” and its adherents those who are “called” Christian.
If we talked about Mormon beliefs and Mormonism and Mormon members this way, we’d get priesthood-slapped.
If I talked about Mormons this way in my church, I’d be agreed with but also told that you do not debate anyone to the true Christ, you love them to Him.
For thought on who is pagan -
“The Gospel Through the Ages” (1946), Seventy Milton R. Hunter is the principal author, the preface states very clearly that “the volume has been written and published under the direction of the General Authorities” (p.vii).
In chapter 17 (“They Shall be Gods”), Hunter attempts to use pagan history and dogma to justify this Mormon practice. Under the heading of “Pagans’ Concept of Knowing God,” Hunter writes:
“Even the doctrine of a knowledge of God as the avenue to Godhood made its way outward from the Divine Fountain of Truth into the heathenistic religions of the Mediterranean world. THE TEACHINGS OF THE HERMETIC PAGAN CULT SOUND QUITE FAMILIAR TO THOSE WHO ARE ACQUAINTED WITH THE DOCTRINE TAUGHT BY JESUS, by John the Beloved, by Paul, and by Joseph Smith the American Prophet. THEY HAVE A CLOSE KINSHIP TO THE TRUE GOSPEL (mormonism) which came to earth through the holy prophets of God. For example, Hermes declared: ‘And this alone, even the knowledge (gnosis) of God, is man’s salvation. This is the ascent to Olympus, and by this alone can a soul become good.’ THIS RELIGION TAUGHT , as did the Prophet Alma, that man must experience a rebirth. The Hermetic rebirth involved nothing less than deification. ‘This is the good; this is the consummation for those who have got gnosis-they enter into God’; so declared the Hermetic teacher.
“Note the close resemblances between the foregoing pagan teachings and those of the true Gospel…Thus we see that the true doctrine of knowing the Lord as the pathway to Godhood was revealed to man as part of the knowledge of the divine plan of salvation; and, like many other Gospel truths, it was disseminated among pagan worshipers.”
http://www.mrm.org/glorifying-paganism
“One man’s theology is another man’s belly laugh” -—Robert A. Heinlein
If that was only Chapter 16, I wonder what else is in “The Gospel Principles 2009 manual” ???
In chapter 16 it implicitly taps into popular assumptions about Nicaea and then says that “false Christianity” (that the “Roman emperor adopted”) “taught that God was a being without form or substance.”
A helpful diagnostic: the Nicene Council is to heretical sects as garlic is to vampires.
We win.
Excuse me I have not read the thread yet nor the new 2009 but could not help “the kettle calling the pot black” remark when for years the pot has been calling the kettle black!!
Very amusing that that should bother the pots matter of fact all of the pots have even argued among each other from the beganning of time...
They still due just read the Religion forum!
just a little chuckle!
I refute that claim. Their claim rests on the LSD (or is that LDS...?) addled stories that began as tales of a ghost of a Spanish Pirate, and mutated into a “father and son” who, while assumed to be THE ‘Father’ and THE ‘Son’, were in fact never properly challenged, never pressed to honestly identify themselves.
Coulda been Satan and one of his chief demons for all I know...Probably was.
In a case like that, I can’t take their word for the appearances of John the Baptist, or the presentation/restoration of the priesthood or priestly ordinances either.
And if the Moronic...errr ‘scuse me “Ironic”... dangit, “Aaronic” priesthood, and the Melchisedek priesthoods are not restored in their proper, unbroken lineage, then I can’t take their word for the current crop having any priestly authority.
And dadgummit, if’n they ain’t got that, I might as well be Cath’lick or Babdist, ‘cause at least we know that John the Babdist and all of them there Popes really existed, and so did Peter and Paul and Mary.
And you know, personally, I think once them folks died and went to heaven, they liked it and didn’t come back again, not a-carrying “priesthood Keys” or Chrysler keys, or gym locker keys...or nothin’!
They also say there was a great ‘postasy - but if it happened the way they say, what was so great about it?
Anyway, how could it have happened, since those witnesses were still alive and preaching the word all the way from Jesus’ day up till now?
And if they are around, and so old, how come we ain’t a-heeard o’ them?
I’m a-thinkin’ THEY’RE the ones who are ‘false’, pagan-heathen types. Maybe I’ll peer into my seer-stone and find out if they are or not - ohhh wait - I cain’t do that!
Th’ good Lord says that’s akin to divination and witchcraft, and doing that there kind of thing would be pagan.
A.A.C.
I would rather that they just get all McConkie on us
- - - - - — -
LOL.
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Now can I light my Christmas tree on fire, butcher the Easter Bunny and eat some ham for Easter(don’t know where this originated as Jesus would not have eaten ham. Cloven hoof thing...)
[Thanks to the Religion Moderator for the repost]
I do. I refute you. Your MO here is consistent - constantly distort what Mormonism really teaches. I’ve repeatedly called you out over the years but you still persist in such dishonest behavior. Shame on you.
What do you call a theistic description of God that ORIGINATED from the Pagan Greeks? Nonmateriality (asomatos), formlessness, God being Mind (Nous) and monad, hypostates, ousia, Aristotle’s Unmoved Mover, ontological omnipresence, and so forth? What was the religion of the Greek philosophers, like Plato, Aristotle, Plotinus, Xenophon, Athanagoras, etc.? Were they Christian or PAGAN???
Typical.
Let’s follow the logic – it really is quite simple: what do you call theistic descriptions of God that ORIGINATED from PAGAN Greek philosophers? Will you call it “Christian” or will you call it “pagan”?
These theistic descriptions of God were later on, centuries later, incorporated by Christian Apologists (the philosopher converts like Clement of Alexandria, Justin Martyr, Polycarp, Origen, etc.) and leaders who were schooled in Platonic and Neo-Platonic thought.
Unlike you, Mormons believe ANYONE who believes the biblical teaching concerning Christ is a CHRISTIAN. We believe as long as one accepts Christ and strives to follow him that that person will go to heaven, to enjoy eternal bliss even without joining our church. Our soteriological difference lies in degrees, with those who join the church as becoming eligible for the highest blessing God can give.
Where we divulge is we reject the Greek philosophical interpolations that were done in the second to fifth centuries to make Christianity appealing to the intellectual elite of the Roman Empire who were steeped in Greek philosophical thought.
It is unfortunate that despite the western man’s worldview has abandoned theistic Platonism and Neo-Platonism since the Renaissance (when we rediscovered how to think for ourselves and employ the scientific method), that these holdouts still reside in Christian theology. This is why no average person in our society can understand the Traditional Trinity since the modes of thought are foreign to our weltanschauung.
Just STICK TO THE BIBLE. It teaches Jesus Christ is God incarnate and is the only begotten Son of God. It teaches he is the Creator, Savior, and Redeemer of the world. It teaches he was born of the Virgin Mary, took upon himself our sins, died on the cross, triumphed over sin and death, and rose from the dead three days later.
The Bible teaches there is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost, who share perfect unity with each other and who SHARE this unity with those who fully receive Christ’s Grace.
What the Bible does NOT do is describe God’s essence or the mechanisms of their unity, or what he did prior to creating the universe.
So, if the Traditional Trinity is comprised of both biblical teachings and unbiblical teachings from the pagans (i.e., the Greek philosophers); what do you call it? If ice cream is mixed with liver, what will it taste like?
We Mormons stick to the Scriptures and utterly reject anything that originated from the pagan Greek philosophers.
I know it’s futile having an honest discussion with you. Your track record here on the Free Republic is one of constantly distorting or demonizing Mormons instead of getting a life.
I don’t mind people believing differently than me. What I really despise are those who lie and misrepresent the true beliefs of others. No true Christian should ever engage in that level of dishonesty.
Is it possible to have you and others of your ilk, like TennesseeNana and the other anti-Mormons around here, to be honorable and just try, TRY, to follow Christ’s command to his followers to not lie about others, like the Mormons, and to always act as a true disciple of Christ, in both word and deed?
What would Jesus do?
Since people with different religious beliefs each think, by definition, that their own beliefs are correct and that others’ are wrong, I don’t see why anyone would care.
“Soon pagan beliefs dominated the thinking of those called Christians. The Roman emperor adopted this false Christianity as the state religion. This church was very different from the church Jesus organized.”
I’ve heard this kind of thing many times from Protestant Freepers in regards to the Catholic Church, and can’t ever remember hearing it from LDS Freepers. So I think it must be pretty common belief among some types of Christians too.
Freegards