Posted on 01/03/2010 10:30:30 PM PST by Gamecock
“You can say the exact same thing about the Presbyterians.”
Nope. Not even close.
verdadjusticia RESPONDS:
It is the exception of our times. They are not the rule of all times. A blip in time. Those dissenting theologians have no authority. The popes have not declared any new doctrines from those theologians. During the Arian heresy it is said that there were practically no Catholic bishops that had not gone Arian, it lasted a few decades and the Church came out of it cleansed of the heresy.
AnalogReigns WROTE;
If you take officially stated doctrines,
verdadjusticia RESPONDS:
Doctrines must be adhered to under under penalty of excommunication. there are no new doctrines. You don’t know what doctrines are.
AnalogReigns WROTE:
plus all the varied opinions of baptized Roman Catholics (Nancy Pelosi and Ted Kennedy come to mind....)(not to mention, variations in Tradition), you have as many or more variations of belief and practice as you find amidst Protestants.
verdadjusticia ANSWERS:
those individuals have no authority, they are not authorities. They are nobodies. The Protestant church authorities have changed all their doctrines over time. The pope has not changed any dogmas (defined infallible doctrines)
AnalogReigns WROTE:
The Roman Church itself—since it originally consisted of only one of the 5 original principalities of the Church—broke away from the Eastern Church in AD 1054.
verdadjusticia ANSWERS:
No credible historian agrees with your outlandish memory of history. Read your Brittania Encyclopedia and see for yourself who broke away from who. Your comment is not even worthy of a response.
AnalogReigns WROTE: From the Eastern point of view it is the Latin church which was schismatic...
verdadjusticia ANSWERED:
If you really believe that, then you should become an Eastern Orthodox, for it is the true Church.
Even despite the rather broad gap in belief between, say, the PCUSA and OPC? Does not the OPC consider PCUSA to be in apostasy?
Catholic religious orders are distinctions among particular groups of Catholics, not divisions; but the divisions between denominations - real divisions that the denominational bodies themselves seem to agree exist - seem to me (an admitted outsider) to be a completely different thing altogether.
re:
You can say the exact same thing about the Presbyterians.
For it is the pope that gave the permission for all of those Catholic orders that were listed above, and he has the authority to disband them with just a stroke of the pen.
The Catholic magisterium, in it's infallible decrees is the Holy Ghost speaking through it's Church.
I'm pinging a few Bible-believing Christians to your outlandish, anti-Scriptural, God-denying comment above. The hubris of Rome is exceeded only by its cruelty.
“... the Magisterium serves the Holy Spirit, just as Christ promised.”
Hah! That’s funny! Give me book, chapter, and verse where Jesus mentions your “Magisterium.” :-)
As Satan wills.
A Jesuit and a Dominican are having a debate about which order is better. The Jesuit points out the loyalty to the pope, the adherence to doctrine and the scholarly authority of the Society of Jesus [okay, okay, stop laughing - it's an OLD joke].
The Dominican answers, “Look, we were founded to deal with Albigensians, you guys were founded to deal with Protestants.
“Seen any Albigensians lately??”
sitetest
Am I wrong or should this article actually be titled “Truth vs. Self-indulgent Fantasy”?
I have another:
There are three things about the Catholic Church known only to God:
1) How much property the Jesuits own.
2) What the Dominicans teach.
3) How many orders of women religious there actually are.
I gotta give equal time to the Jesuits!
A Jesuit and a Dominican are arguing which order is superior. They agree to let God decide. They pray, “O God our Father in Heaven! Judge between us! Which one of our two orders is superior to the other??”
After a while, a little slip of paper descends from the clouds. It says:
“I love you both.
“- God, S.J.”
sitetest
I appreciate your passion for the truth, and for your taking the time to counter the arrogance of those who exalt the Roman Catholic Church over Christ. Sometimes I’m just too tired to address their false statements.
LOL! Well, whatever it is, I just want to point out that we had 'em before the secular world came up with medications for ED. Just sayin'.
I don't know much, but the little I know is about the Dominicans, and things can be sort of extrapolated. When Dominic came along there were already a few established "rules" for "religious." Here Rules does not mean, necessarily minutely detailed instructions for common life (or for solitary life) but more programmatic, even "style" issues.
Dominic wanted a group of priests who were trained and devoted to evangelism and who led lives as simple and unadorned as the Albigensians. He was told he had to use an existing rule as the basis of his new rule, so he modelled the order on the rule for Augustinian canons (where I THINK "canons" means not laws, but people living under specific laws, something like that.)
Before the "first order" the "friars preachers" (friars means brothers) got off the ground, he established a cloistered nunnery for young women who had left the Albigensians but wanted a place to live and to pray. Their specific mission was to pray for the success of the preachers.
THEN the first order gets founded. Then the "Third order" which is VERY fluid in structure. These days usually it's women who teach or minister to the sick or whatever. They have to get permission from the first order to call themselves Dominican. Presumable they WANT to be able to call themselves that because they feel some kind of kinship or alignment with an evangelical mission, and they like the flexibility of the Dominican approach to things.
But at the same time as Dominic (late 1100's -- early 1200's) there were groups of lay people who led lives with a commitment to a "rule" of prayer, study, and evangelical stuff (in the broadest possible sense, I'd guess.) These groups tended to cluster around Franciscans or Dominicans and finally made the associations formal.
All this is to give an example. I'm a Dominican. But I'm a lay Dominican. So I am, as it were, brother to a BUNCH of people around the world, all doing very different things, but all with a commitment to prayer, study, evangelism, and community with one another. That's ONE sort of 'meta-family'. All the Franciscan groups would make another, as would Benedictines, Carmelites, etc.
And I guess the last thing to say is that all these are approved ways of being Catholic. We find that what helps us live into the Gospel is this kind of thing. We don't think the Carmelites are doing it wrong or that the Trappists are better than we. They have their call, mission, and gifts, and we have ours. All to the Glory of God and the building up of His Church, we hope.
I hope this verbosity is helpful.
But of course, ACTUALLY the note said: God, OP.
VDJ: The Catholic magisterium, in it's infallible decrees is the Holy Ghost speaking through it's Church.
The sad thing is some actually believe this nonsense.
Me, I'll stick with my Bible and stay away from these sects that like to think they control GOD.
Luke 17:20-21 ..."The Kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed the Kingdom of God is within you."
The Holy Spirit is within me, guiding me, convicting me, leading me. Those poor souls that think God does what their church decrees end up bowing down to graven images, worshiping a "suitable vessel" and believing in nonsense like the "treasury of merit" where the pope is supposed to have the ability to transfer one persons good works to another. The best way to stay away from these heresies is to have Scripture as the rule of your faith.
By raising the words of men above the Word of God you are in effect diminishing the Word of God.
May I continue to strive not to raise anything above the Lord, as some are prone to do.
Seriously, Petronski, have you ever praised or honored or esteemed the Lord *above* your particular denomination? Or is it not possible for you to simply extol the Lord?
We have WAY more gold lamé.
And yet I do not do that.
Stop misrepresenting me. Does Exodus 20:16 mean anything to you?
Would you like a remedial link to boost your wisdom?
I can't conceive of a need for an emergency (water) baptism...
After Philip led the Ethiopian to Jesus, the Ethiopian was immediately filled with the Holy Spirit (spiritual baptism)...Philip never asked or suggested the Ethiopian needed to get wet for his salvation to kick in...And Philip may never have baptized the Ethiopian had the Ethiopian not asked for it...
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