Posted on 12/28/2009 11:26:45 AM PST by urroner
For the sake of a discussion, let's assume that I am a brand new neighbor of yours. We have only met each other in passing. You play the part of the Christian and I will play the part of the agnostic. (BTW, none of the below is true about me. Upfront, I am Mormon, but I have tried to get into this discussion on this forum for some time, but haven't been able to do so.)
(I also realize that there are some of you who are more than eager to post anti-Mormon material on this thread and I request that you don't do so. I don't even want Mormonism mentioned in this thread beyond this point.)
Let's assume that I'm out trimming the hedges between your house and mine and that you are working in a garden close to the hedges.
My wife and three kids, ages 3, 8, and 13, are all out with me. My wife keeps telling me I need to paint the house before it gets colder, my younger children are throwing little rocks at me to get my attention and laughing and giggling, and the oldest is pestering me about buying her a cellphone and about the promise I made a year ago about letting her pierce her ears for earrings.
In a calm moment, my wife and I get into a neighborly chat, well would be my wife, I'm a science/math teacher at the local community college and it's very hard for me to just sit down and chitchat and you tell us you are Christian.
My wife tells you she is a Christian also, but doesn't go to any denomination and hasn't been to church in several years, since marrying me, but that I am always peppering her with questions that she doesn't know the answers to. She says that one of the reasons she has stopped going to church is because she likes to spend Sundays with me since we don't get a lot of lone time together. I spend a lot of time helping students at the college and when I'm home, I have to spend a lot of time with the kids. We do have a date night every week, but that's just not enough.
She also says that she is also tired of seeing so much hypocrisy among the church members and the preacher is always asking for money, that she had decided to stop going. She says that her preacher, when she was little, told her she was saved as did her parents, so her salvation was guaranteed.
You see me roll my eyes when my wife says that.
I tell you that I really don't go to any denomination, but I have read the Bible, the Koran, the Tao Te Ching, the Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, some of the writings of Marx, and some New Age books. I tell you that I don't know what the right way is or even if there is a right way?
I tell you that I tend toward Uniterianism, but Buddhism has some attraction to me also, but it's a little too esoteric for me. I tell you that I also have some problems with life after death, reincarnation, or any supernatural miracles.
I tell you my parents were Catholics before they died, but they died when I was very young and I have been to church only a couple of times since their funeral, but the people who adopted me were strong agnostics and never directed me to follow any particular path. I'm thinking about going back to the RCC, but haven't made any decision yet.
You realize that I am fairly knowledgeable of the Bible when it comes to knowing where what is, but you realize that I don't interpret them at all as you do. In fact, I have a very shallow understanding of them. I think the Bible is good literature and can help a person do a lot of good in this life, but I don't know anything about being saved and what that means.
I ask you what you believe and how I can find the happiness and joy you have in your life.
What are you going to say or do?
Start with John 17:3 and work your way from there.
IBTZ
I’m going to wish you a Merry Christmas and get back to my work not because I disagree be because I need to get this done so I can enjoy the football games later.
Merry Christmas to you too. My team won their bowl game and I am happy for that. Hope your team wins.
Seek and you will find. Good luck on your personal journey - sometimes He will carry you - and sometimes He will walk beside you.....but you will never be alone.
“goodbye.”
Don’t forget to smile.
You know what happens when you assume, don't cha?
First it depends on whether the bushes are on your property or mine, and whether you are picking up the trimmings.
Next, I would not try to impose my values on you because that would do nothing but put you off. If you are interested I would gently offer to discuss it if you wanted to, but leave it at that. Rome wasn’t built in a day.
I am Catholic. So, if you were interested in the Catholic Church I would go out and buy you the Catechism and if you wanted it I would give it to you. Then we could talk over time as much as you were comfortable with.
In the end, you and your family’s future welfare are in your hands, not mine. I would try and steer you on the right path, and be sad if you decided against it.
And, your wife is right. Paint the house.
“For the sake of a discussion, let’s assume that I am a brand new neighbor of yours. We have only met each other in passing.”
“I ask you what you believe and how I can find the happiness and joy you have in your life.”
I’m not sure why you posted this very long premise to what amounts to a simple question. But I’m not sure how you know this person has happiness or even joy in their life given the set up you describe.
Maybe you could explain why you beleve your neighbor is happy and joyful in the first place based a couple chance passings?
John 17:3 - Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
What is “eternal life?”
For a person who knows so much you ask allot of questions.
I’m gonna ping other people to help answer your question, of course!
PING!!!
Well, first I wouldn’t use the Bible like most Christians do because that would hold as much weight with a non believer as someone quoting the Q’uran would with me. I would use fact. First, what are the oldest of those writings and who was the most correct looking back with the science we now have. The Judaic portion of the Bible, most notably the first five books, are very old and they are factually correct (as far as science can tell so far when looking at the data). Also, unlike other books, the heroes within the Bible have humanly faults and require redemption also. Another thing that sold this former atheist is that it’s not based on blind faith and that the Bible is complex enough to warrant a doctorate’s degree to fully understand it. With the tons of attempts at discrediting it, none have been able to fully do so when you go back to the original languages it was written in. As for me, I can only say that one should challenge each and every religion until you are satisfied with the results. For me, after major challenging of the religions, my inner peace was fulfilled with the only truth in the universe: The Trinity via the Blood of the Christ.
Would you mind contemplating your navel elsewhere.
Why would someone tell you they’re Christian and then say they don’t know anything about being saved?
I’ve never had anyone talk religious beliefs with me while I was doing yard work. Geez.
“let’s assume that I am a brand new neighbor of yours. We have only met each other in passing.”
Advice, since you asked: To maintain good neighbor” policy, DO NOT, repeat DO NOT discuss religion or politics with your neighbor — EVER.
Here is a dose of reality for you:
Your neighbor does not want to not be able to enjoy his backyard, and not be able to go outside, when you are outside, because you are constantly trying to convert him.
Just think how would you feel on the receiving end of some determined person’s attempts to convert you to their religion, whatever that may be.
Talk about your and your neighbor’s garden, kids, dogs, weather, anything except politics and religion.
Aren’t Mormons Christians too?
Look up the account of Creation in Genesis: man was purposed to live on the Earth forever, but we know how that got messed up!
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