Posted on 11/30/2009 6:01:03 PM PST by delacoert
I’ll just leave this here…
Before a defense of any kind of religious discrimination, one ought to make all of the necessary disclaimers: of course I oppose government-sponsored discrimination, and I certainly would not support the kind of absurd treatment described by Steven Reinhart in his piece featured below. That being said, there is a legitimate case to be made for judging any candidate for office by his religious convictions.
In late 2007, Mitt Romney made his somewhat-famous speech on religion, where he spoke the following words:
“Freedom requires religion just as religion requires freedom. Freedom opens the windows of the soul so that man can discover his most profound beliefs and commune with God. Freedom and religion endure together, or perish alone.”
Similarly, Romney has stated: “I believe in my Mormon faith and I endeavor to live by it…my faith is the faith of my fathers. I will be true to them and to my beliefs.”
If freedom requires religion, if his Mormon faith sustains his life and he will be true to those practices, then I’m at an utter loss as to why we should ignore Romney’s religious beliefs when evaluating his fitness for the White House.
We ask plenty of questions of any Evangelical Christian candidate: what do his beliefs about the nature of God, the nature of the cosmos, and the meaning of man’s life mean for his potential tenure in office? But for whatever reason, these questions are looked at as unnecessarily piercing and prejudiced when asked of a member of a minority faith.
When Sarah Palin gave her fumbling answer about Israel’s settlements, several commentators jumped on her faith, wondering whether she subscribed to the bizarre but potent sect of modern Christianity that believes in the imminence of the End Times. Will anyone ask Mitt Romney about the oddities of the dogma of the Mormon Church? There are plenty of Mormon doctrines that may strike people as a bit odd — and rightly so. It is established in the church that the devout can reach the upper echelons of heaven and eventually become gods themselves, able to create their own universes and govern them as they see fit (all while supervised by the One True God). Why is it that when I bring this up to Romney fans, I am dismissed as a bigot?
As an atheist, I both understand and accept that in a predominantly Christian society, my thoughts on religion are necessarily going to open me up to questions. If I were to ever run for office (don’t count on that, by the way), I would not expect my supporters would try to ward off any questions about my atheism with the victim-card of discrimination. One’s philosophy of religion contributes profoundly to his worldview and thus is a completely valid criterion by which to partially evaluate a candidate’s fitness for office.
I view all religions as equally bizarre and irrational. But mainstream Christianity is often adopted as a cultural guise, meant for purposes of assimilation with the majority. Probe most self-described Christians and you’ll find plenty of deviation from standard dogma. Devotion to Mormonism, which is completely outside of the American mainstream, requires a certain level of commitment. To what extent will Romney’s faith influence his decision-making? I ask that question of devoted Evangelicals and judge them accordingly, and I will do the same of a Mormon. And I am not going to apologize for that.
We have folks telling us Islam is a bigger threat than the LDS, which in this world and in this time it is by a long shot. In the eternal realm, both being false religions engineered by the Evil One to lead men astray they are on par with each other.
Then we have very earnest and in some ways right minded folk castigating others about choosing a person based on their religion, correctly quoting that there should be no official "litmus test" for higher office.
Many of those who are the very ones pointing out the former are also ones doing the later.
Which then leads me to wonder what happens if we bring both trains of thought together with this one simple question
Would you elect a devout Muslim to the POTUS?
I am the one attending Church not you I and millions of others have witness what is really is being taught...
- - - - - - -
But Colofornian and I (and many others here) HAVE attended the LDS, and we do know what is being taught (even watching Gen Conferece).
Because we know what is really taught, is EXACTLY why we are no longer LDS.
:)
Well in our Romney discussions of 2 years ago, this actually was our approach. But we've moved away from that. And I think we could actually avoid a lot of senseless typing & needless head-banging, if we Inmans simply agreed to just repeatedly bring up that question.
Assignment to any Inman who desires it: Track this thread & recent ones, & then, ask away on that Q.
(Seems to me we could hear the crickets already)
Will if any of you had attitudes like many display here what more can I say!
We have no doubt you will have plenty more to say. ... How’s that FARMS connection working for ya?
I was much more mousey and “prim and proper” back when i was a “molly Mormon”.
I guess finding out I had been lied to by LDS, inc. hardened me a little.
No worries, though. Jesus is softening those “rough edges” more and more. :)
Oh noes, the post of the beast
*BURP*
Resty,
My attitude is based on being mislead. I don’t like being lied to and that is what happened in the lds religion. By omitting fundamental truths about their beliefs (lies of omission) they lied to me.
Once I started learning the truths of what they believe and taught, I was angry. Angry at myself and them. And now my family is in disarray because I am viewed as the one who “abandoned them” vs. “seeing the truth”. Now I have my work cut out for me in showing my family that they are being mislead as well.
To cast stones about attitudes at folks here on FR because we are posting the truth is deflecting and obfuscating which is a form of lying.
You are also being judgmental without taking any of our experiences into account. You don’t answer questions, you post something else to deflect. I have asked you numerous questions that were in no way inflammatory and you have not answered one.
I purchased an ESV of the Bible and when my wife saw it, she asked me about “that Bible”. That short conversation demonstrates an attitude to the word of God that lds’ers have towards anything or anyone outside of mormonism. A negative attitude.
SZ
My attitude is based on being mislead. I don’t like being lied to and that is what happened in the lds religion. By omitting fundamental truths about their beliefs (lies of omission) they lied to me.
**
Well my experience is a little different I had a witness from the Holy Ghost before I knew about the Church.
All I had was a copy of a blue Book of Mormon with a little history from the 1800 AD and than another story starting at 600 BC boy was I confursed.
it is a long story so I will edit I was cleaning house and going to throw the Book away even though I live books but where did it fit in my library!
As I stood over the wastepaper basket I was impress to read the Monroni 10 where it was marked.
Well I did kneel and pray to find out if this Book was true
Wow the most over whelming feeling of joy came over me and I just had to know more of that Book.
When the Missionaries came to visit a member in the Apartment building which I worked and lived.
I inquired of them and they invited me to investigate which I did I even went to a Calvery book store and read stuff from Walter Martin which gave me the willies.
I remember reading the NT and feel good and reading the Book of Mormon and feeling good and than read what Walter Martin said and felt foreboden.
I have soon learn fear is not of the Lord but the Lord gives peace.
Anyway I did investigate anything you could think of even stuff before I was baptized.
They did not lie to me I already knew and had many one on one with the Lord it was a wonderful journey.
I was more of a loner in my investigation just me and the Lord.
So many questions I had wondered for years was answered.
I only know I have been blessed hundred folds over and over.
BBL
Commonality of fairy tales?
correctiion
it is a long story so I will edit I was cleaning house and going to throw the Book away even though I love books but where did it fit in my library!
Got any links to evidence of any of this stuff?
MANY?
ATTITUDES?
Come on Resty - spit them out!
Name names and make a LIST!
Did he tell you what was UNTRUE about PRESBYTERIANism?
Has ANYONE told you what was wrong with PRESBYTERIANism?
CAN ANYONE tell us what was wrong with PRESBYTERIANism?
I have two of them and they sit right here on my desk!
You KNOW what question WE want answered!
I NEVER throw books out. Personal library of 10,000+ volumes and still counting.
I still have both my LDS ‘quad’ and LDS Bible and ‘triple combination’. And I still use them to look things up, mostly to prove things against the LDS.
I did lose some of my LDS books in a move, still wondering if I should replace them.
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