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Judge Romney By His Religion? I Do It, and So Should You.
Race 4 2012 ^ | November 30, 2009 | Alex Knepper

Posted on 11/30/2009 6:01:03 PM PST by delacoert

I’ll just leave this here…

Before a defense of any kind of religious discrimination, one ought to make all of the necessary disclaimers: of course I oppose government-sponsored discrimination, and I certainly would not support the kind of absurd treatment described by Steven Reinhart in his piece featured below. That being said, there is a legitimate case to be made for judging any candidate for office by his religious convictions.

In late 2007, Mitt Romney made his somewhat-famous speech on religion, where he spoke the following words:

“Freedom requires religion just as religion requires freedom. Freedom opens the windows of the soul so that man can discover his most profound beliefs and commune with God. Freedom and religion endure together, or perish alone.”

Similarly, Romney has stated: “I believe in my Mormon faith and I endeavor to live by it…my faith is the faith of my fathers. I will be true to them and to my beliefs.”

If freedom requires religion, if his Mormon faith sustains his life and he will be true to those practices, then I’m at an utter loss as to why we should ignore Romney’s religious beliefs when evaluating his fitness for the White House.

We ask plenty of questions of any Evangelical Christian candidate: what do his beliefs about the nature of God, the nature of the cosmos, and the meaning of man’s life mean for his potential tenure in office? But for whatever reason, these questions are looked at as unnecessarily piercing and prejudiced when asked of a member of a minority faith.

When Sarah Palin gave her fumbling answer about Israel’s settlements, several commentators jumped on her faith, wondering whether she subscribed to the bizarre but potent sect of modern Christianity that believes in the imminence of the End Times. Will anyone ask Mitt Romney about the oddities of the dogma of the Mormon Church? There are plenty of Mormon doctrines that may strike people as a bit odd — and rightly so. It is established in the church that the devout can reach the upper echelons of heaven and eventually become gods themselves, able to create their own universes and govern them as they see fit (all while supervised by the One True God). Why is it that when I bring this up to Romney fans, I am dismissed as a bigot?

As an atheist, I both understand and accept that in a predominantly Christian society, my thoughts on religion are necessarily going to open me up to questions. If I were to ever run for office (don’t count on that, by the way), I would not expect my supporters would try to ward off any questions about my atheism with the victim-card of discrimination. One’s philosophy of religion contributes profoundly to his worldview and thus is a completely valid criterion by which to partially evaluate a candidate’s fitness for office.

I view all religions as equally bizarre and irrational. But mainstream Christianity is often adopted as a cultural guise, meant for purposes of assimilation with the majority. Probe most self-described Christians and you’ll find plenty of deviation from standard dogma. Devotion to Mormonism, which is completely outside of the American mainstream, requires a certain level of commitment. To what extent will Romney’s faith influence his decision-making? I ask that question of devoted Evangelicals and judge them accordingly, and I will do the same of a Mormon. And I am not going to apologize for that.


TOPICS: Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: braindeadbigots; excusesexcuses; hidebehindreligion; mitthides; mittwhit; mittwhits; mittwits; mormon; mormonism; rino; rinos; romney; romneyhiding; unusualtopic
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To: restornu
There is no such thing as a Christian Bible it is the Holy Bible which contains the words of Jehovah and Jesus Christ.

ANNNNNnnnK!

In the beginning was the Word...

581 posted on 12/02/2009 11:48:16 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: reaganaut
placemarker

WHAT!!??

In the MIDDLE of an ELSIETHON??

582 posted on 12/02/2009 11:49:53 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

You TOO???


583 posted on 12/02/2009 11:50:27 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: reaganaut; restornu
Looks like it was Resty herself...

That's strange - wonder what it was??

Surely not her misspellings, or miswordings or scrambled syntax: we are USED to seeing all of that.


Restornu; WHAT HAPPENED?

584 posted on 12/02/2009 11:53:43 AM PST by Elsie (R)
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To: Colofornian

The Family: A Proclamation to the World


The First Presidency and Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

We, the First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, solemnly proclaim that marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God and that the family is central to the Creator's plan for the eternal destiny of His children.

All human beings—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose.

In the premortal realm, spirit sons and daughters knew and worshiped God as their Eternal Father and accepted His plan by which His children could obtain a physical body and gain earthly experience to progress toward perfection and ultimately realize his or her divine destiny as an heir of eternal life. The divine plan of happiness enables family relationships to be perpetuated beyond the grave. Sacred ordinances and covenants available in holy temples make it possible for individuals to return to the presence of God and for families to be united eternally.

The first commandment that God gave to Adam and Eve pertained to their potential for parenthood as husband and wife. We declare that God's commandment for His children to multiply and replenish the earth remains in force. We further declare that God has commanded that the sacred powers of procreation are to be employed only between man and woman, lawfully wedded as husband and wife.

We declare the means by which mortal life is created to be divinely appointed. We affirm the sanctity of life and of its importance in God's eternal plan.

Husband and wife have a solemn responsibility to love and care for each other and for their children. "Children are an heritage of the Lord" (Psalms 127:3). Parents have a sacred duty to rear their children in love and righteousness, to provide for their physical and spiritual needs, to teach them to love and serve one another, to observe the commandments of God and to be law-abiding citizens wherever they live. Husbands and wives—mothers and fathers—will be held accountable before God for the discharge of these obligations.

The family is ordained of God. Marriage between man and woman is essential to His eternal plan. Children are entitled to birth within the bonds of matrimony, and to be reared by a father and a mother who honor marital vows with complete fidelity. Happiness in family life is most likely to be achieved when founded upon the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ. Successful marriages and families are established and maintained on principles of faith, prayer, repentance, forgiveness, respect, love, compassion, work, and wholesome recreational activities. By divine design, fathers are to preside over their families in love and righteousness and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for their families. Mothers are primarily responsible for the nurture of their children. In these sacred responsibilities, fathers and mothers are obligated to help one another as equal partners. Disability, death, or other circumstances may necessitate individual adaptation. Extended families should lend support when needed.

We warn that individuals who violate covenants of chastity, who abuse spouse or offspring, or who fail to fulfill family responsibilities will one day stand accountable before God. Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets.

We call upon responsible citizens and officers of government everywhere to promote those measures designed to maintain and strengthen the family as the fundamental unit of society.

This proclamation was read by President Gordon B. Hinckley as part of his message at the General Relief Society Meeting held September 23, 1995, in Salt Lake City, Utah.
Link
585 posted on 12/02/2009 11:54:45 AM PST by Spiff
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To: Elsie

Jhn 6:67-68
“You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve.

Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.


586 posted on 12/02/2009 11:57:55 AM PST by Elsie (R)
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To: Elsie

Jhn 6:67-68
“You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve.

Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.


587 posted on 12/02/2009 11:58:24 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: restornu

Those who love the Lord learn of his Plan of Salvation and striving to keep His commandments!

- - - - -
Resty, what are you going to say to God, as you sit in Judgement, when He tells you that he didn’t want you to TRY to keep the law, but rather to TRUST the ONLY one who has ever kept the whole law (Jesus)?


588 posted on 12/02/2009 11:58:41 AM PST by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost, but now am found; was blind but now I see")
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To: Elsie

{I was attacked by a pirate!}


589 posted on 12/02/2009 11:59:37 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

sowwwy. :(


590 posted on 12/02/2009 12:00:16 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost, but now am found; was blind but now I see")
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To: Spiff
The family is ordained of God. Marriage between man and woman is essential to His eternal plan.

The family is ordained of God. Marriage between man and WOMEN is essential to His ETERNAL COVENANT..

SCRIPTURE:

D&C 132:29-35

  29 aAbraham received all things, whatsoever he received, by revelation and commandment, by my word, saith the Lord, and hath entered into his exaltation and sitteth upon his throne.
  30 aAbraham received promises concerning his seed, and of the fruit of his loins—from whose bloins ye are, namely, my servant Joseph—which were to continue so long as they were in the world; and as touching Abraham and his seed, out of the world they should continue; both in the world and out of the world should they continue as innumerable as the cstars; or, if ye were to count the sand upon the seashore ye could not number them.
  31 This promise is yours also, because ye are of aAbraham, and the promise was made unto Abraham; and by this law is the continuation of the works of my Father, wherein he glorifieth himself.
  32 Go ye, therefore, and do the aworks of Abraham; enter ye into my law and ye shall be saved.
  33 But if ye enter not into my law ye cannot receive the promise of my Father, which he made unto Abraham.
  34 God acommanded Abraham, and Sarah gave bHagar to Abraham to wife. And why did she do it? Because this was the law ; and from Hagar sprang many people. This, therefore, was fulfilling, among other things, the promises.
  35 Was Abraham, therefore, under condemnation? Verily I say unto you, Nay; for I, the Lord, acommanded it.

591 posted on 12/02/2009 12:07:40 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: La Enchiladita
You would be smart to investigate the mormon way....

At the very least what "they" think about other faiths, and their "founders" beliefs.

fwiw-

592 posted on 12/02/2009 12:08:17 PM PST by Osage Orange (Obama's a self-made man who worships his own creator...............)
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To: Spiff
This proclamation was read by President Gordon B. Hinckley as part of his message <>P>Was he speaking as a PROPHET?
593 posted on 12/02/2009 12:08:24 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: restornu

Civil Union is not an ordinance of God it is of the world!
________________________________________________

All those one night stands that Joey Smith did were not of God either...

They were from Joey’s lust...


594 posted on 12/02/2009 12:15:19 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: Elsie

"The Farce is strong in this one..."

595 posted on 12/02/2009 12:29:46 PM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: Spiff; Salvation; All
Spiff,

Re: proclamation of family, etc:
#1: Hey, I never said Lds didn't prefer, teach, or believe in opposite-gender marriage. (They do). In fact, they always have...but they've also been "more than" accommodating to other arrangements, if you know what I mean...wink-wink, nod-nod.

For those who don't "get" the wink-wink, here, allow me to give a plain historical example: Between early 1830s & early 1850s, Lds also preferred, taught and believed in opposite-sex, one-woman marriage, then, too! But just as polygamy was slowly accommodated by their leaders' "private endorsement" over 20 years before anything was in writing, Lds have entered in -- with their leaders' blessings -- that same kind of 20-year slide.

No formal doctrinal changes, either now -- or then. (Just like the early 1830s, when Smith the prophet was sleeping with his 17 yo adopted servant girl, Fanny). Even at the FAIR apologetics conference, speaker Greg Smith, in his presentation, "Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Plural Marriage* (*but were afraid to ask)" said: "The best historical evidence suggests that plural marriage was revealed to Joseph by 1831, and that he was teaching it to a limited circle by that year."

(Spiff, how do you know your current "prophet" isn't likewise teaching something different to his limited "PR" circle than he is, you? If so, he'd be on the "best" of Mormon precedents -- Smith himself!)

So there ya go, Spiff. Even the Lds professional apologists concede it doesn't take fully unveiled, formally announced doctrinal changes of family arrangements for Lds leaders to begin recognizing otherwise.

#2: Could you please explain a few of these statements in the proclamation you posted?

For example: All human beings—male and female—are created in the image of God.

My note: Every Mormon I've known willing to address the subject -- when they say that man is made in the image of God -- say this proves that God has a physical body. They insist this is a physical image rendered within man. So could you please explain, if that's the case, how womankind was created in the Mormon god's physical image? In whose image was Eve was created?

And finally, these statements from this one graph: In the premortal realm...

Spiff, how do you know if you or any family were there in a pre-mortal realm? I mean, Smith taught in D&C that spirits & intelligences have always existed. If that was so, then why did spirits need to undergo some secret birth to a secret Mormon goddess if they already existed? I mean, the whole pre-mortal myths of Mormonism make absolutely zero sense.

(to continue with the proclamation excerpt: ...spirit sons and daughters knew and worshiped God as their Eternal Father and accepted His plan by which His children could obtain a physical body and gain earthly experience to progress toward perfection and ultimately realize his or her divine destiny as an heir of eternal life.

Spiff, could you put the part I underlined in plain language so that lurkers can know plainly what Hinckley was saying here behind the soft presentation? Isn't Hinckley simply saying that to Mormons, becoming an "heir" = Mormons becoming gods?

596 posted on 12/02/2009 2:14:36 PM PST by Colofornian (If you're not going to drink the coffee, at least wake up and smell it!)
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To: restornu; Spiff
Marriage is an ordinance of God

Resty, of course it is! (But to Mormons, it's been rather a very, how should we delicately say this, a very "pliable" one...see my post to Spiff -- #596 -- for further elaboration)

597 posted on 12/02/2009 2:25:48 PM PST by Colofornian (If you're not going to drink the coffee, at least wake up and smell it!)
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To: Reno232

Very well expressed - it’s nice to see a little bit of sanity on this thread.


598 posted on 12/02/2009 3:32:31 PM PST by rscully ("You cannot change a mind with logic that was made up without the use thereof." --DelphiUser's Dad.)
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To: Elsie; All

You have a problem with Freedom???


599 posted on 12/02/2009 5:05:08 PM PST by KevinDavis (Can't Stop the Signal!)
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To: Elsie; All

I hate to break it to you.. Abortion is a STATES RIGHTS issue... To me freedom is important.. Radical Islam wants to take my freedom away..


600 posted on 12/02/2009 5:07:35 PM PST by KevinDavis (Can't Stop the Signal!)
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