[greyfoxx39]

Disclaimer: I am former LDS and "anti" mormonism. I post articles from official mormon sources that often relate to current discussions taking place on the forum to provide a means for open discussion in the Religion forum.

 

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[greyfoxx39]

Ping

[lurk]

The book is based on Reformed Egyptian, but there is not even a fragment of Reformed Egyptian in the world.

The book mentions places and cities which do not exist in the western hemisphere.

The book alleges that the Native Americans are descended from the Middle East, when genetic studies associate them with Mongolia and northeast Asia.

The book is loaded with grammatical errors and is a difficult read due to its poor composition.

The book originated from Golden Plates, but there are no gold plates to be found.

The book has nearly 4000 changes in it since its first printing, including important changes of meaning.

The book includes words with Greek, French and Latin origins, all languages which didn’t emerge on the world scene until centuries after the people sailed from the Middle East to the new world.

The book speaks of steel, a fairly recent technology.

The book mentions critters that weren’t in the western hemisphere in those days.

The book speaks of 2,000,000 guys wiping each other out in one day of battle, dwarfing by many times the bloodiest days of battle in known military history. That’s 42.3 men killed every second for 12 hours! That’s twice the population of Salt Lake County! And every man is K I A; none were left wounded!

The book allegedly had witnesses, but the witnesses of the gold plates later said that they didn’t actually see the plates with their physical eyes.

The book alleges to contain the fullness of the gospel, but doesn’t include baptism for the dead, age 8 as the age of accountability, men becoming gods, temple marriage, the temple ceremony, temple garments, God once a man, multiple other gods in other universes, blood atonement, water for the sacrament, the Adam God doctrine, three heavens, preexistence, God having a body, Jesus as a lesser god, family sealings or any other doctrine unique and vital to the Church.

The book copies passages directly from the King James Version of the Bible, including the italicized words supplied by the KJV translators in the 1600’s.

The book’s original language is allegedly verified by a professor of Greek and Latin at Columbia, but he wrote a letter denying the allegation, calling the book a scam.

The book’s author was a convicted con man who lied, cheated, stole, started a fraudulent bank, wrote and uttered lists of false prophecies, married other mens’ wives while publicly denying it, married young teen girls, boasted that he did it better than Jesus, and destroyed another man’s printing press.

And you want me to close my eyes and pray about the book to see if it’s true?

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“I am intrigued that Joseph Smith—an unschooled young man in rural America—could have translated this Semitic language mix into the English language.”

FALSE assumption!

Joe Smith was a fraud, a liar, a deceiver, and a horndog.

[svcw]

There is no other book quite like it. Well that's true.

It is a book that the Lord Jesus Christ has personally testified to be true. In the form of an oath, the Lord said—referring to the Prophet Joseph Smith’s work:

“He has translated the book, even that part which I have commanded him, and as your Lord and your God liveth it is true.” (D&C 17:6.)

It is interesting to me that a person could write a book saying what ever they wanted to say and part of what they said is reaffirming that what they are saying is true because god says its true so it must be. My goodness that sounds confusing.

[ChinaGotTheGoodsOnClinton]

Hey I've been thinking about the similarities between Islam and Mormonism so I did a search to see if anyone else noticed this. Here is what I came up with (I am just saying):

Islamic And Mormonism Similarities

Similarities between Joseph Smith and Muhammad:

The followers of Muhammad and Joseph Smith both killed innocent "infidel" on the same date of 9/11. On September 11, 1857, Mormon militia massacred about 140 men, women and children under the authority of Brigham Young. However 17 very young children were spared and adopted into Mormon families. They were in fact sold to the highest Mormon family bidder and resold and traded many times afterwords. This event is called "The Mountain Meadows" massacre. Mormon leaders engaged in a deliberate rewriting of history to deny they were behind the murders. On September 11, 2001 Muhammad's followers, using the Koran as a guide, sent two airplanes into the World Trade Center killing 3000 innocent men, women and children. Muslims today have a PhD in rewriting history and preach in the mosques that Jews were actually driving the planes, not Muslim terrorists. Both were visited by an angel. Joseph Smith was visited by the angel "Moroni" and Muhammad by Gabriel. Galatians 1:6-9 says, "I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you, and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be accursed." Both were given visions.

Both were told that no true religion existed on the earth. In the published account of his life, Joseph Smith related that he became very disturbed when he was a youth because of the "strife among the different denominations," and this "cry and tumult" led him to ask God "which of all the sects were right — and which I should join." He was told that he must "join none of them, for they were all wrong... that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt..." (Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith 2:8-19) N. J. Dawood says that Mohammed was also concerned with the fact that the Jews and Christians had "divided themselves into schismatic sects." In the scriptures given by Mohammed, we read: "Yet the Sects are divided concerning Jesus.... Truly, the unbelievers are in the grossest error." (The Koran, translated by N. J. Dawood, Surah 19, p. 34) In Surah 30, page 190, this warning appears: "Do not split up your religion into sects, each exulting in its own beliefs." In Surah 3, page 398, we read: "The only true faith in Allah's sight is Islam. Those to whom the Scriptures [i.e., Jews and Christians] were given disagreed among themselves through jealousy only after knowledge had been given them."

Both were to restore the long lost faith as the one true religion. Islam makes claim that Adam and Abraham were Muslims, a claim that is as ridiculous as it is undocumented from either history or archaeology. Mormons make the unsubstantiated claim that the church in the first century were Mormon.

Both wrote a book inspired by God.

Both claimed to be illiterate or uneducated and used this as proof the book was inspired. "How could an illiterate man write the Koran or the Book of Mormon?" Joseph Smith is claimed to have only grade three education. Both claimed the Bible was lost, altered, corrupted and unreliable.

Both claimed their holy book was the most correct and perfect book on earth.

Both claimed that their new "Bible" was based upon a record stored in heaven. With Islam, it is the "mother book" that resides in heaven with God. With Mormonism, it is the golden Nephi plates that the angel Moroni took back to heaven. Both claim that the version we have in our hands today are identical to what the prophet revealed and that parts are not lost, altered and corrupted. Of course the proof that these claims are invalid is found in two books. The Mormon claim is proven false by a book called "3913 Changes to Book of Mormon" by Sandra Tanner. The Islamic claim is proven false by a book (In Arabic language) called, "Making Easy the Readings of What Has Been Sent Down" by Muhammad Fahd Khaaruun. Both books show that the copy of the book of Mormon and the Koran used today is different from what was originally used when each religion was started.

Both claimed to be a final prophet of God.

Both claimed they were persecuted because of their pure faith.

Both were polygamists who had many wives.

Both borrowed from paganism/polytheism. Muhammad incorporated that polytheistic moon god called "Allah" and "Allah's three daughters" into Islam. Basically Muhammad chose Allah from within 350 known gods that were worshipped in Arabia and proclaimed the moon god to be the greatest and only God. Smith borrowed from a doctrine called "pyramidology" and the Masons and other magic systems.

Both received "after the fact corrective revelations" from God. Muhammad retracted the Satanic verses and Mormons retracted Smith's divine order mandating polygamy. But for Mormons it there is even a closer parallel. Sounds exactly like Muhammad and his satanic verses. "As many false reports have been circulated respecting the following work, and also many unlawful measures taken by evil designing persons to destroy me, and also the work, I would inform you that I translated by the gift and power of God, and caused to be written, one hundred and sixteen pages, the which I took from the Book of Lehi... which said account, some person or persons have stolen and kept from me, notwithstanding my utmost exertions to recover it again — and being commanded of the Lord that I should not translate the same over again, for Satan had put it into their hearts to tempt the Lord their God, by altering the words, that they did read contrary from that which I translated and caused to be written; and if I should bring forth the same words again, or, in other words, if I should translate the same over, they would publish that which they had stolen, and Satan would stir up the hearts of this generation, that they might not receive this work: but behold, the Lord said unto me, I will not suffer that Satan shall accomplish his evil design in this thing: therefore thou shalt translate from the plates of Nephi, until ye come to that which ye have translated... I will shew unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the Devil." (Book of Mormon, 1830 edition, Preface)

Immediately after the death of Muhammad and Smith, a fight broke out from among the "faithful converts" as to who would succeed Muhammad and Smith. Both groups were plunged into irreparable division that has endured ever since. Islam and Mormonism both have squabbles among themselves as to who is the one true splinter group of their prophet!

Mormons, contrary to the Bible, "baptize the dead" by gathering genealogies of all men who lived on earth. This contradicts the Bible: "But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless." Tit 3:9 While the Bible says avoid focusing in Genealogies, the Mormon church makes it their central focus of mission. Mormons have even been criticized for baptizing, by proxy, the Jews had died in Nazi Holocaust camps. When lists of genealogies are collected, living Mormons are baptized, on behalf of, those on the lists, who have already died. In this way, Mormons view every man who lived, as being Mormons. In the same way Muslims claim that all men are born Muslims and when they learn the truth of Christianity, they are apostatizing from their first faith. Muslims re-write history by proclaiming Jesus and the Apostles were Muslims in a similar way Mormons baptize Jews (for example) with the expectation they will be Mormons in the next life. Yet gathering of large genealogical lists no more makes dead people Mormons in the next life, than re-writing history makes Jesus into a Muslim.

Both the Islam and Mormon religions have those who follow the "original doctrine" of the founding leaders and like these founding leaders, are violent, polygamists, and have revelations justifying their evil actions.

Both Muslims and Mormons (and Jehovah's Witnesses) have progressive revelation. Jw’s call it "new light". Muslims call it "Nasikh". Jehovah’s Witnesses were once instructed to celebrated Christmas, birthdays and salute the flag, but "new light" changed all that. Mormons like all Muslims, were originally polygamists until "The Manifesto" against polygamy came as a revelation to John Taylor, over 40 years after Smith's death, on the eve of the US government outlawing the practice of polygamy. New revelation always replaces older revelation that became inconvenient to the prophet.

　

[Ecliptic]

Revelation 22:18 says that no one should add to or take away from the Book.

Galatians 1:8 says that even if an angel comes teaching another gospel (reminds you of the book of mormon) they will be eternally condemned.

[SkyDancer]

Chloroform in print Mark Twain

[Elsie]

 

The inscriptions on the plates were written in a Semitic language,

using a modified Egyptian type of script.

Some critics have scoffed at such a linguistic mix.

 

 

 

The "Caractors" are the only tangible evidence in existence related to Smith's story. No gold plates, no brass plates, no peep stones, no Urim and Thummim... only these "Caractors," not a single one of which is in the purported languages.

---

 

Smith's translation of the Caractors. According to Martin Harris (Joseph Smith - History, 1:64), "I went to the city of New York, and presented the characters which had been translated, with the translation thereof, to Professor Charles Anthon, a gentleman celebrated for his literary attainments. Professor Anthon stated that the translation was correct, more so than any he had before seen translated from the Egyptian. I then showed him those which were not yet translated,* and he said they were Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic; and he said they were true characters."

Speak right up now in all truthfulness. Isn't it revealing how Smith started out making a stab at creating believable "caractors" but quckly gave up and produced nothing but squiggles, ending up wih a series of nothing more than crude little scribbles? Yet Professor Anthon supposedly translated them!

---

*Harris must have had two or three pieces of paper with him—one with characters and a translation of them (on the same paper or a separate one) and one with untranslated characters—quite likely the "Caractors." Some Mormon "scholars" have gone out on a limb, sawed it off, and knocked themselves out trying to translate from these true Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic characters a segment that would correspond with a verse from 1 Nephi.

---

Modern-day experts in Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic. In 1829, any knowledge of these languages possessed by U.S. scholars would have been rudimentary at best. Expertise in them has vastly improved since then. So go ahead, do it. Get any modern expert in these languages to identify which of these "Caractors" are Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac and Arabic. Better still, accept the claim of Mormon apologists that Anthon did indeed so testify and that his appraisal of the Caractors was correct. (Op. cit, pp. 73-75)

Save your money! Samples of Assyriac/Aramaic and Arabic writing:

     .
 

     .
 

      .

 

What say you? Which of Smith's "Caractors" resemble the Assyriac and Arabic ones? No need to pay experts for their analysis. A child could accurately check this out. These writing systems have remained constant for well over 3000 years.

[delacoert]

How Joseph Smith translated (Version 1):

“Also, that there were two stones in silver bows—and these stones, fastened to a breastplate, constituted what is called the Urim and Thummim—deposited with the plates; and the possession and use of these stones were what constituted ‘seers’ in ancient or former times; and that God had prepared them for the purpose of translating the book.” (JS—H 1:34–35.)

How Joseph Smith translated (Version 1):

“Joseph Smith would put the seer stone into a hat, and put his face in the hat, drawing it closely around his face to exclude the light; and in the darkness the spiritual light would shine. A piece of something resembling parchment would appear, and on that appeared the writing. One character at a time would appear, and under it was the interpretation in English. Brother Joseph would read off the English to Oliver Cowdery, who was his principal scribe, and when it was written down and repeated to Brother Joseph to see if it was correct, then it would disappear, and another character with the interpretation would appear. Thus the Book of Mormon was translated by the gift and power of God, and not by any power of man.” (David Whitmer, An Address to All Believers in Christ, Richmond, Mo.: n.p., 1887, p. 12.)

 

Two different versions of Joey's amazing translational gift and the author doesn't even seem to notice.

[Graybeard58]

“Joseph Smith … could neither write nor dictate a coherent and well-worded letter; let alone dictating a book like the Book of Mormon.

I believe that Joseph Smith was inspired but as we know there is more than one source of inspiration. How many hapless souls have been misled so far and how many yet to come?

Pray for the souls of the millions who are immersed in this "religion".

[delacoert]

Because the Book of Mormon is a translation of a modified Hebrew language, it contains many Hebraisms. We might list a few examples because they are so unlike the language that would have been familiar to a young man in rural New York at that time:

• Nouns followed by descriptive phrases—such as “altar of stones,” “plates of brass,” “mist of darkness.”
• Prepositional phrases used instead of adverbs—such as “with harshness,” “with joy,” “with gladness,” “in diligence.”

English as spoken by the common man in 19th century Upstate New York would certainly have included these simple parts of speech.

[Elsie]

?The Book of Mormon truly is a treasured testament. There is no other book quite like it. Can you find any other book delivered by an angel?

And yet GOD had JS to 'translate' the KJV of the Bible, but the LDS Organization does NOT consider it to be SCRIPTURE.

Does that not seem mighty STRANGE?

[Saundra Duffy]

Thank you once again for fulfilling prophesy: Joseph Smith said his name would be known for good and evil. I know his name for good and you know his name for evil.

I suppose you think it’s cool that Joseph Smith and his brother were murdered in cold blood by a blood-thirsty mob - no due process, no trial.

I suppose you agree with Governor Boggs’ extermination order against Mormons - men, women and children.

I suppose you enjoy the thought of the early pioneer Mormons having their homes, land, and belongings stolen by evil greedy haters.

I suppose you think it’s just hunky dorie that Mormons were driven out of Nauvoo in winter.

I suppose you get a kick out of Mormons being persecuted today for their conservative stands.

I suppose you just love to ponder the spectacle of Joseph Smith being tarred and feathered. (Bet you really like that.)

The lies and distortions coming out against Mormons are nothing new. Nothing new at all. The persecution and hatred continue to this very day . . . just as predicted.

End times. That’s all.

[Saundra Duffy]

P.S. I used to be an anti Mormon myself and believed the pile of lies I was told by ignorant preachers and other misguided misinformed closed-minded holier-than-thou folk.

[SpeedRacer]

Joseph Smith would put the seer stone into a hat, and put his face in the hat, drawing it closely around his face to exclude the light; and in the darkness the spiritual light would shine. A piece of something resembling parchment would appear, and on that appeared the writing. One character at a time would appear, and under it was the interpretation in English. Brother Joseph would read off the English to Oliver Cowdery, who was his principal scribe, and when it was written down and repeated to Brother Joseph to see if it was correct, then it would disappear, and another character with the interpretation would appear.

Quick question - how does one "translate" from one language to another, one character at a time?