The Rev. Roy Bourgeois spoke at a Congregational church yesterday. (Maisie Crow for The Boston Globe)
Posted on 08/24/2009 6:14:17 AM PDT by NYer
WESTON - A prominent priest whose support for women’s ordination has him in trouble with the Catholic Church ratcheted up his confrontation with the hierarchy yesterday, calling the church’s refusal to ordain women a “scandal’’ and “spiritual violence.’’
“I will not be silenced on this issue,’’ said the priest, the Rev. Roy Bourgeois, to about 100 people in Weston at an event hosted by the congregation of Jean Marchant, a former staffer for the Archdiocese of Boston who claims she was ordained as a priest in an unsanctioned ceremony four years ago.
The Catholic Church views Marchant and Bourgeois as having been automatically excommunicated for participating in unsanctioned ordination ceremonies.
Yesterday Bourgeois said he remained unclear about his status because he has had no formal communication from his order, the Maryknoll Fathers, or from the Vatican, which last fall told him he would face excommunication if he did not recant.
“If they choose to kick me out of the church because I believe that men and women are equal, so be it,’’ Bourgeois said. “I will never be at peace being in any organization that would exclude others.
“What’s going on in our church today is spiritual assassination, it’s spiritual violence being done that’s inexcusable. That is a scandal,’’ he said.
The Archdiocese of Boston yesterday declined to comment on the event in Weston, referring instead to a statement it issued last year saying, “The ordination of men to the priesthood is not merely a matter of practice or discipline within the Catholic Church, but rather, it is part of the unalterable Deposit of Faith handed down by Christ through his apostles.’’
(Excerpt) Read more at boston.com ...
Jesus only chose men as his Apostles. Was he wrong Padre?
Well! A hundred people! And this is news--- why?
"...out of respect for the church’s view that he has been excommunicated."
That's like "Michael Vick respects the judge's view that he's guilty of a felony." Or "John Kerry respects the voters' view that he is not President of the United States."
And --- about them priestesses?
There once was a woman whose mania
Was liturgical extemporanea.
She thought she'd at least
Be a self-declared priest:
And I am the Queen of Romania.
I've been a Catholic for 8 years. And your statement is the only reason I've come across that appears to support the male-only Priesthood. But it has always seemed like a very weak reason to me. Jesus never explicitly stated that Priests had to be men.
Jesus lived in a very patriarchal society. Men dominated everything at that time. In a patriarchal society, authority positions are always filled by men unless some hereditary system gets in the way. So, it seems to me that the fact that the Apostles were all men has more to do with the society that existed 2,000 years ago than with an explicit decision made by Jesus. I'd bet that if Jesus had waited 2,000 years to come to earth, there would have been some female Apostles.
Now, I actually prefer the all male Priesthood and would hate to see it change. But I just don't buy the reason the Church gives to support the all male Priesthood. I don't think it had anything to do with anything Jesus explicitly said or did.
Now, where am I wrong?
Sara Butler’s book, The Catholic Priesthood and Women: A Guide to the Teaching of the Church, might be helpful to you. Sr. Butler had devoted herself to researching the issue of women’s ordination hoping to develop an argument for women to be priests, but found that after all of her studies, she agreed with the Church’s tradition. Hope this helps.
Where did you go wrong?
Very simple.
If Jesus wanted women ordained, He would have done it.
He didn’t.
If you believe what Catholcis believe about Jesus, you must understand that he could have come at any time. Jesus is in no sense bound by culture. Had he chosen to institute a priesthood that included women do you truly believe it would have been any more startling and unlooked for than his insistence to devout Jews that they'd have no life in them unless they ate and drank his flesh and blood?
Over and over in the Gospels, Jesus speaks of himself as Bridegroom, and scripture repeatedly points to the wedding feast of the Lamb. The ordained priesthood is nothing but a participation in the priesthood of Christ, who is spouse to his Church. The maleness of ordained priests is a sign of Christ's spousal relationship to us all.
Why does he think that nuns are in any way lesser than priests?
LOL!
*********************
God is all-knowing. He is not influenced by society's whims.
I'm an even newer Catholic than you - 2003, ex-Piskie - but let me see if I can explain.
First, the "patriarchal culture" argument won't wash. Christ consorted with tax collectors and prostitutes, spoke with Samarian and Syrio-Phoenician women that a good Jew would never even look at, overturned the moneychangers' tables, declared 'no one need fast while I am here', announced that he was the Son of God, and just generally wreaked havoc on the accepted Jewish social order. Had he wished to ordain women, the idea that women in a position of authority violated some sort of cultural norm would not have deterred him in the least.
Second - consider this: if he did not ordain the Virgin Mary, his own mother and most blessed of women . . . .
Finally, because the Eucharist is the central rite and is a re-presentation of Christ's sacrifice, the priest is "alter Christus" - another Christ - who performs the rite. As the spouse of the Church, the spotless bride, the priest must be male. When I was an Episcopalian, there was always a logical disconnect when a priestess celebrated Communion. I think that may be one more of the many reasons that the Piskies crashed and burned . . . .
Read this. http://www.marianland.com/romancatholicbooks/womenpriestothefantasies.html
Fr. Micelli was not known for pulling any punches.
I’m just going to pray for this guy, the women he “ordained” and the people hurt by the scandal. Nothing else I could do would have any affect.
But do you notice how no 30 yr. old priest is signing on to this gibberish. It’s retirees who are so heterodoxical. The young fogies love the Tradiiton of the Faith.
I don't think "wrong" is the right term. The Church doesn't ordain women because it doesn't have the authority to do so. Since Jesus didn't ordain women, the Church believes that the authority for it to do so doesn't exist.
It's not that she doesn't want to, per se. There are a lot of women with education, piety, and abilities sufficient to make good priests. But their role in the Church is not to BE priests, but to PROVIDE priests. Good priests must be nurtured and encouraged and strengthend in their faith, and as a rule, mothers are in the best position to do that. Men don't have babies, so all they can do is set the example. But no one has more influence over a man's upbringing than his mother. This is one of the main reasons why there are fewer priests today than there were fifty or sixty years ago. The mothers today generally don't have the time to spend teaching the faith that mothers years ago had.
There were lots of women priestesses in religions other than Judaism in those days - it wouldn't have been any kind of innovation for him to ordain some in Christianity, yet he chose not to. That's good enough for me.
This statement cracks me up:
Jean Marchant, a former staffer for the Archdiocese of Boston who claims she was ordained as a priest in an unsanctioned ceremony four years ago.
Gee... if you follow that logic, I could be a Bishop in an unsanctioned ceremony.
Good grief... these folks are delusional.
To those who replied to me, thanks for the input — very helpful.
If God made men and women in His image....equal before Him...then it’s difficult to see why women would be denied ordination.However,defying the Pope in a case like this is wrong...seriously wrong.If supporters of ordaining women want to pursue the issue gentle “persuasion” of the Pope is more likely to work than is open defiance.And women should know that even if they’re not allowed ordination they can,in various ways,play just as important a role in God’s work as any priest.”Important” meaning important in the eyes of God.And in the end,that’s the only thing that counts for us mortals...priest or layman/woman.
By all means, let’s ordain women so we can be just like TEC and ELCA!
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