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Posted on 08/22/2009 1:20:36 PM PDT by Salvation
True...but Jesus was no more being literal there than he was in John 4:
“13Jesus said to her, “Everyone who drinks of this water will be thirsty again, 14but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.” 15The woman said to him, “Sir, give me this water, so that I will not be thirsty or have to come here to draw water.”
John 5:
“35He was a burning and shining lamp, and you were willing to rejoice for a while in his light. 36But the testimony that I have is greater than that of John.”
John 7:
“38Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’” 39Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.”
Jesus didn’t give the woman at the well superwater. John the Baptist wasn’t a flashlight. And Christians aren’t water fountains.
And earlier in chapter 6 we read: “35Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.”
All of these verses have spiritual meaning. As is, “48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. 50 This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. 51I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”
Yes. Read the entire passage of John 6:41-71, and you will see that after Jesus explained the metaphor, and that only God would determine who would come to Jesus (and thus life), many left Him.
Read the entire section, literally. Keep the verses in order, consider the context and the preceding verses. It's pretty clear:
Jesus stated that you had to eat the Bread of Life to live forever. He said He was the Bread. And then He clarified that it is Spirit and NOT flesh that gives Life, and that His words were the Spirit and thus Life.He stated that only those granted by God would come to Him. Some of His disciples found this troubling, and left. The Twelve stayed with Him, though.
Is that not a fair reading and summation of the passage?
Huh?! Followers that had been with him for a long time, witnessing many miracles, being filled both physically and spiritually, would be troubled by Jesus saying "that only those granted by God would come to Him"?! They would certainly believe that they were within this chosen people and would not have been troubled by this saying at all!
"Never apologize for the Blessed Virgin Mary!"
~~Mother Angelica~~
We ask Mary to intercede for us. We don’t ask her to glorify herself. In fact, her last words in the Bible are about her Son: “Do whatever he tells you.”
Can’t fault that at all.
65And He was saying, "For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father."66As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore.
Jesus says that only those God has granted will come to Jesus, and that causes many of his disciples to leave.
What part is not clear?
You evidently do not know of the Dogma of the Immaculate Conception. She had a clean soul in order to house our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ in her womb.
Might be good for you to do some digging and thinking about that.
Evidently they have not heard of typology. There is much forshadowing of the New Testament to be found in the New Testament.
McGuire, have you ever heard of it before? Check into it.
**Well, the first Lutheran was adamant that Mary is the Queen of Heaven.**
Right on, FRiend.
She is the new "Eve"; Mary's "yes" eclipses Eve's sin (as her Son's "yes" reverses Adam's sin).
Mary is the theotokos, the "bearer of God."
She is the new tabernacle, replacing the former tabernacle carried in Moses' time.
All generations will call me blessed. Future generations would forget an ordinary peasant girl who was merely 'good'. She's remembered and 'blessed' because God willed it.
She was the spouse of the Holy Spirit who overshadowed her.
She carried the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ in her womb for nine months.
Peter was the first Pope, upon whom Christ built His Church. Every Pope since has been the direct successor of Peter himself. As the Vicar of Christ on earth and the head of the Church He established, the Pope speaks with authority on matters of faith and morals. Such as the Queenship of Mary and Immaculate Conception
"There are also many other things that Jesus did, but if these were to be described individually, I do not think the whole world would contain the books that would be written." … John 21:25
**Literal interpretation is simple**
YOPIIOS
Your
Own
Personal
Interpretation
Of
Scripture.
Sorry, but Catholics don’t put that kind of spin on Scriptrue. (by trying to interpret it for themselves.) I’ve often wondered why Protestant do that. Maybe you have an explanation.
Jesus tells us that the womb that bore Him is not blessed; in fact, only those who listen and believe His words are blessed.
So if you follow the direction of Mary, you should not bless her because she told us to do as He says, and Jesus says to not bless her.
Yet where does Mary claim she is blessed? She literally states that people will call her blessed, but she does not state that she IS blessed.
Great thread Salvation! If I may be so bold, I think you will love the video linked at post 45.
HOMILIES PREACHED BY FATHER ALTIER ON THE SOLEMNITY OF THE QUEENSHIP OF MARY
What About Mary as QUEEN OF AMERICA?
Mary Is Queen of Heaven, Not Pope (part 2)
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS XII: ON PROCLAIMING THE QUEENSHIP OF MARY [AD CAELI REGINAM]
Some points to consider about the Queenship of Mary
It was a deep prayer and revelation born of the understanding that the Holy Spirit (who overshadowed her) revealed to her in a deeply spiritual way. The only way that all generations will call her blessed would be if it was the will of God and that He revealed that to Mary through the Holy Spirit.
For that section of scripture, if you interpret it literally, it is quite easy. Is it not? Whether or not it should be interpreted literally is a different question. But it is quite easy to literally interpret.
Sorry, but Catholics don’t put that kind of spin on Scriptrue
No, Catholics believe that only the Church can interpret Scripture, and anything that the Church does not authorize is heretical.
Of course, the Scripture also states that the Word of God is Jesus, and that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life and no one comes to the Father but through Him.
Apparently, now, the Catholic Church has assumed the role of the gatekeeper to God, since it is the sole arbiter of what is "proper Scripture" understanding. It has replaced Christ as the Way.
I’ve often wondered why Protestant do that. Maybe you have an explanation.
2 Timothy 3:15-17. Scripture is all that is needed for salvation, teaching, reproof, correction, for every good work. You do not need someone's interpretation of it. Per Scripture itself.
But back to Mary, the reason for this thread. Jesus Himself says that Mary is not to be blessed because of her position as His mother. And in fact, as believers WE are His family, not those who were related to Him by flesh.
I don’t think I’m making myself clear...
Mary said - correctly - that all future generations would call her blessed. Yet she never so called herself!
Stating what you believe others will call you does not mean you agree with their beliefs.
Please tell me where Mary calls herself blessed, or where Jesus calls her blessed. We have Mary saying others will consider her blessed, but that’s it.
Joh 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
So then it's clear...If you eat Jesus flesh and drink his blood, you will never be hungry or thirsty again...
Trouble is, I haven't seen any Eucharist eaters giving up on food or drink...I haven't given up on food even tho I believe on Jesus Christ...What's up with that???
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