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To: Servant of the Cross
66 and 67 come after 63.

Yes. Read the entire passage of John 6:41-71, and you will see that after Jesus explained the metaphor, and that only God would determine who would come to Jesus (and thus life), many left Him.

Read the entire section, literally. Keep the verses in order, consider the context and the preceding verses. It's pretty clear:

Jesus stated that you had to eat the Bread of Life to live forever. He said He was the Bread. And then He clarified that it is Spirit and NOT flesh that gives Life, and that His words were the Spirit and thus Life.

He stated that only those granted by God would come to Him. Some of His disciples found this troubling, and left. The Twelve stayed with Him, though.

Is that not a fair reading and summation of the passage?

62 posted on 08/22/2009 8:36:32 PM PDT by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the sting of truth is the defense of the indefensible)
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To: PugetSoundSoldier
He stated that only those granted by God would come to Him. Some of His disciples found this troubling, and left.

Huh?! Followers that had been with him for a long time, witnessing many miracles, being filled both physically and spiritually, would be troubled by Jesus saying "that only those granted by God would come to Him"?! They would certainly believe that they were within this chosen people and would not have been troubled by this saying at all!

63 posted on 08/22/2009 8:42:40 PM PDT by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free)
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To: PugetSoundSoldier

Read John 6 like this:

Immediately after Christ said that the followers came because He had fed them through the miracle of the loaves and fishes, He says, “Labor not for the meat with perisheth, but for that which endureth unto life everlasting, which the Son of Man will give you.” He didn’t say “spirit” or “faith” or symbolic bread; He said MEAT which endures forever. ((John 6:27)

When Christ spoke in parables, He gave a small summary at the end to explain His point. He did not do that in John 6. He’s just done several tremendous miracles for the people and fed them. They are primed to believe in Him. Then the people asked for a sign, like manna in the desert, that would help them believe in Him— and they ask Him to give them this faith-giving nourishment ALWAYS. At this moment, He decides it is time to tell them about the miraculous nourishment that He will give them until the end of time. He tells them 12 times that HE is the bread of life. He tells them 4 times to eat His flesh and drink His blood. He uses the word “trogon” not the normal word for eating (phagon). Trogon means “gnaw or crunch with your teeth” because He is stressing REAL eating. The tense of the word “trogon” also implies CONTINUOUS eating.

As all those followers turned away because they just couldn’t accept this teaching, He turned to the apostles and said, “Will you walk away also?” He didn’t clarify a thing for them, because there was nothing to clarify on this teaching. He was not speaking symbolically that day. All the people listening that day knew this. That is clear from the Gospel.

Peter, the spokesman of great faith, said, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of ETERNAL life? And we have believed and have known that you are the Christ, the Son of God.” Peter shows at this moment that he has just accepted Christ’s bewildering words on faith. It is at this moment he becomes the leader of the Church Christ is founding. Remember later, their eyes are opened and they understand after they celebrate the Eucharist on their own.

Catholics take Scripture more literally than any other faith, even this strange, divinely inspired scripture about the Eucharist. The people who heard Christ that day, and many people today, have dull ears and closed eyes. Christ said what He meant and meant what He said. He knew it took a leap of faith. That’s why He started talking about the Father’s gift of faith at the end of this passage. It’s a leap He asked His followers to make. He was disappointed and discouraged when his followers couldn’t make that leap of faith, but He let them distance themselves from Him over it.

Read John 6 as a continuous story, as it happened, as it was inspired to be written, and I think it will make more sense to you.

The argument you are making is not logical: people don’t stop believing in somebody who just did some amazing miracles because He spoke in a metaphor that they didn’t like. They would have asked for clarification. So would the apostles. Christ wouldn’t have wanted to lose a soul over a metaphor. This just doesn’t make sense and you are trying too hard to make this passage mean what you want it to mean. The fact is, it just doesn’t mean that. Christ said what He meant to say clearly.


139 posted on 08/24/2009 3:39:29 PM PDT by Melian ("An unexamined life is not worth living." ~Socrates)
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