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Posted on 08/22/2009 1:20:36 PM PDT by Salvation
I thought the discussion had ended.
Are protestants Christians?
Exactly. The verses are quite plain and simple to understand. It is supported by other statements by Christ that heeding His word makes one his family, not the biological connection.
I’m waiting for Petronski to explain how it should be interpreted...
Catholics do not worship saints. They are our brothers and sisters who have gone before, and they are there to plead for us, but they are not God.
Mary was the mother of Jesus, both true God and true man (although many Protestants don’t believe this), and he is the Lord of the Universe. Therefore, it’s reasonable to think that she, who like her Son was a real historical person, will intercede and plead for us.
If you can’t think of her as your mother, think of her as your older sister who has gone before you and is still praying to God for you.
You mean like this verse ...
"Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day" … John 6:54
You asked,”Are protestants Christians?”
Good question. Before he can answer your questions he’ll need to know what exactly is a “protestant”. Are you talking about Methodists, Lutherans, Episcopalians, Presbyterians, Jehovahs Witnesses, Baptists, Seventh Day Adventists, Quakers, Moravians, Amish, Church of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saints, Mennonites, Disciples of Christ, Church of Christ, Assemblies of God, Salvation Army, oh heck...never mind.
Well, there are two ways to consider this:
1. Context meaning metaphorical - Jesus is calling himself Bread of life, as compared to other Heavenly-provided bread (manna) which did not provide the same kind of life. Thus Jesus is speaking metaphorically.
2. Context meaning literal - you must eat His body; not a representation (such as the Eucharist). His actual flesh, not a replacement, but His actual flesh.
If you want to be literal, the it must be Jesus’ actual flesh, not some representation or supposed transformation. Unless it is the literal, physical flesh (meat and skin) of Jesus, you cannot take the literal interpretation.
You mean, like “whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.” 15 The woman said to him, “Sir, give me this water, so that I will not be thirsty or have to come here to draw water.”
And it is! Praise be to God! It is called transubstantiation in which Christ, through the hands of His priest, transforms simple bread into the body of Christ! Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity! Our God is an awesome God!
I mean DNA-testable, chemically and physically flesh like that you can peel from your own forearm? Is that the transformation that happens?
It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.
Bread is the metaphor for the Spirit and teachings of Christ. Per His own words.
"As a result of this, many [of] his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him. Jesus then said to the Twelve, "Do you also want to leave?" John 6:66-67
Nothing in there about metaphors. If it was a metaphor, verse 66-67 would read, "hey, come back guys, I only meant this metaphorically!
Jesus said "to Thomas: 'Take your finger and examine My hands. Put your hand into My side. Do not persist in your unbelief, but believe!' ... John 20:27
Speaking of believing (and DNA testing), check this out: Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano!
"And Mary said: 'My soul magnifies the Lord; my spirit rejoices in God my savior. For he has looked upon his handmaid's lowliness; behold, from now on will all ages called me blessed.'" ... Luke 1:46-48
And all ages since have called her blessed by God. Blessed does not equal sinless, or Queen of Heaven.
Then explain what Jesus meant in John 6:63. He explained that the Spirit and His words were the bread of life.
Speaking of believing (and DNA testing), check this out: Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano!
Is it your contention that every Communion results in the same miracle? If so, why is this a "Miracle" if it is so commonplace? Can I go and attend a Catholic mass, keep the host, and have it analyzed for DNA and chemical composition of human flesh?
66 and 67 come after 63.
Your question on verses 66-67 is answered by verses 64-65:
“64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) 65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
Not all his ‘disciples’ had been given him by the Father, for some of them did not believe.
He didn’t want them back - they were not his in the first place.
from now on will all ages call me blessed
She is stating what she believes she will be called, not what she really is. There is a statement of what others say, not what Jesus says of her or what she claims for herself.
When you read the verse literally, what do you read there?
because He knew they would refuse to believe Him regarding His teaching of His body and blood, among other things.
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