Lutheran (ELCA) Ping!
Posted on 08/18/2009 9:52:28 AM PDT by lightman
There was obviously some discouragement last night among those hoping to derail the train here. It was refreshing to pray Morning Prayer this morning with Lutheran CORE supporters, led by our own Pr. Tibbets, singing and praying together for God's good and gracious will to be done among us. Now off to the plenary.
Tuesday morning began with more routine things—a presentation from the Nominating Committee chair, for instance.
This then led into the report of the PB. It was an extended reflection, based primarily on the proposed question: When we get to 2017 and the 500th anniversary of the Reformation, what do we want to see and say that our witness has been for the past decade? This was woven into comments about the ELCA brand, “God’s Work, Our Hands.” Our witness should be that we have been “going with the flow” of God’s Spirit poured out upon us. Noted there have been warnings that if we take certain actions, we will become another declining denomination. Wake-up call from PB: We already are! Let’s take personal responsibility for our own discipleship and evangelical outreach. We are not anxiously holding our collective breath over human sexuality, but breathing in God’s Holy Spirit. Imagine the power of our witness if those who expect to see dissension and division instead see a Pentecost moment this week. The PB called on a representative from an Oromo (Ethiopian) congregation in Minneapolis. With a worship average of 700, it is, he said, the largest black congregation in the ELCA. The representative spoke briefly and movingly about the congregation’s evangelical outreach. He did not mention, however, that this congregation has been praying fervently that the ELCA would not abandon its standards for ministry. A few moments later, the PB called on us to become an increasingly multi-cultural church because we need the witness of those of other cultures. OK then. “Let those of us who are white begin to die to what gives us comfort and power and privilege.” What this means for him, of course, is all about changing worship styles and electing persons of color to leadership. Did we slip back to the ‘60s here? As one pastor intimately involved in Hispanic ministry put it: “All this breathless panting about multicultural outreach, and in one fell swoop we’re going to take actions which will irreparably damage our multicultural outreach.”
What will be our witness about human sexuality? This assembly’s decisions will shape our witness, as will responses made to our actions. We have opportunity to offer witness of our unity in Christ—diverse, filled with differences, broken in sin, yet united and whole in Christ.
The PB got a standing ovation, evidence once again that he is a popular leader, at least among those who are voting members of the CWA. One curmudgeonly comment made to me: “What happened to the concept of a report as an account of what he’s actually done?”
The first presentation of the proposed 2010 budget was made, about $95.4 million. 81% of this budget is to come from mission support. The presenter spoke of the reduction made in the 2009 budget, leading to staff layoffs and salary reductions, a situation that will continue under the proposed 2010 budget.
Andrea DeGroot Nesdahl presented the proposed strategy on HIV/AIDS. Every 9 ½ minutes, another person in the US is infected with HIV. HIV/AIDS is no longer a “gay men’s disease” but now infects people in all demographics, especially growth in Latino and African American populations. There are still shocking levels of stigma associated with the disease. Rafael Malpica Padilla spoke about the ELCA’s international efforts with regard to HIV/AIDS. Cynthia Halverson spoke about the funding mechanisms for this initiative (which will be subsumed under the ELCA Hunger Appeal). Goal is $10 over five years. The strategy seeks to make the ELCA an “ELCA-competent church” because the church as a body is HIV/AIDS-positive.
The PB then called on members of the sexuality task force to come forward to introduce the statement. Task force chair Peter Strommen introduced the proposal. He likened a social statement to bridge design—undergirding much activity, though often not much noticed, just part of the infrastructure. Strommen outlined the rather strenuous work of the task force over the past 7 years. “In truth the deep disagreements in this church have weighed very heavily upon us all.” The members of the task force were recognized, and received a standing ovation.
Four presuppositions:
1. We can no longer assume that our culture, or even our church, shares a common view of core beliefs. Thus statement needed to be specific about assumptions.
2. First order of business is our mission challenge. We cannot afford to be inarticulate about our faith. Our faith is centered in God’s unconditional love and our vocational calling to love neighbor as self.
3. Use of sexuality to engage, sell products, create addictions, is big business which challenges our fundamental Christian perspectives. We attempt to respond theologically and ethically to this.
4. Recent tendency to overfocus on individual sexual rights, and underfocus corporate dimensions. Document takes account of the social dimensions of sexuality.
Focus of trust, and the bound conscience (a recognition that we have deep disagreements, and will continue to have deep differences). Theologically, our disagreements need not be church dividing.
Timothy Wengert introduced concept of “respect for the bound conscience of the neighbor.” Briefly discussed Luther’s concept of “conscience bound to the Word of God.” But there was another context for this concept in the Reformation: Luther opposed, for instance, the attempted enforcement of communion in both kinds. Those whose “bound conscience” prevented them from receiving the cup should be respected. Luther treated all consciences with respect. Reformers had several grounds for eliminating fasting as a churchly discipline—one of which was the demand for fasting which violated consciences. This concern for conscience lies at the heart of the proposal. One mustn’t just claim that one’s own conscience requires a certain interpretation, and then make everyone else deal with it. Instead it means that the very people who hold opposing viewpoints on a particular issue must recognize the bound conscience of their neighbor who disagrees with them, and then work in such a way that does not require the neighbor to reject the faith.
The assembly then went into a “committee of the whole,” a device for conversation with no motions or action. First up was Bob Benne (VA). He cited Reagan’s words to Gorbachav: “Tear down this wall.” I plead to you as PB to “call this off.” “Call off” action on this social statement which makes enormous changes in our Christian teaching. It is intrinsically wrong to go forward. It is not meet, right and salutary that this assembly vote on God’s commandments. The vast majority of Christians in the world would not even consider this. We are voting on a momentous change in teaching without any theological or Biblical grounds. If we go forward on this, soon “this church” will no longer be part of “the church.”
Y Chiu, NE Ohio, tried to offer a procedural suggestion, which was ruled out of order. He then proceeded to speak on the statement. “I am homophobic” he admitted. But I am a physician; I was challenged by my pastor to study this issue, and I changed my mind. People complain to me about following the Scripture. I’m strictly a poor miserable sinner. I don’t know much about theology, but I do know my Lord tells me to love your neighbor as you love yourself.
Roy Gibbs, NW Ohio. I am a farmer who works with God’s creation every day. Everyone of us knows what is right and what is wrong. Our Father has written it on our hearts and in our minds. This is God’s law and we cannot change it. It isn’t about feelings or agendas, and we cannot change God’s law, what is right and wrong.
Pr. Gladys Moore, NE Synod. What a gift it is to be part of a Christian body that has studied, prayed, listened, discussed, and is now ready to offer our discernment to the world. The world is waiting for our witness that says sexuality does not have to divide the human family.
Pr. Phillip Nielsen, Nebraska. Statement oversimplifies the complexity of homosexual experience. It does not address bisexuality, transgenderism. Does not address those who have identified their homosexual attractions as dysfunctional in their lives and who seek the counsel and help of their church. How can we move forward? Arguments from experience will always leave us divided. Our unity comes from the Spirit working through the Word. Statement does not clearly state the Biblical and theological arguments of both camps; gives us only varying opinions, suggesting that our position is indeed just a matter of opinion, experience ruling the day. This a social UNSTATEMENT because it ignores the Biblical and theological arguments of both sides, and leaves us only to argue over experience.
Phillip Moeller, Washington DC. I cling to Scriptural base, theology as my soul’s guide. Base of my faith goes back to my Lutheran pastor father. He would read Sunday’s text and say to me, “Phillip, what does that mean to you?” That was the way I grew to understand the love of Christ, and later to deal with my sexuality in the context of Scripture. As I read the statement, I hear the voice of my father.
Pr. Zach Thompson, St. Paul. Story about the daughter of a bishop whose daughter announced she was going to live with a man outside of marriage. Parents did not agree, but assured her that they still loved her. They did not call on a change of the church’s standards. Personal experience, conscience, never trumps the Word of God. Our sinful nature seeks for ways to justify and rationalize, and we thereby attempt to claim authority that is not ours.
Steven Chapman, NW Washington. Statement has always started doing its job, which is to be a teaching statement. Told about discussion in a high school faculty lunch room where he talked about the statement with colleagues who were pagan, atheist, woman who had been kicked out of her church. They were all attentive. “When did the church get so real?” Cited Scripture passage that was read “at my wedding with my husband David,” held up photo of their two children.
Wayne Jacobson, NE Iowa. I have yet to be convinced from Scripture and confessions that changing our practice would be the right thing to do. No passage of Scripture speaks positively of homosexual practice. If Scripture does not bless same sex unions, how can this church do so?
Larry Christiansen, SE Iowa. I was raised in the Reformed tradition. When I was a teenager, the Bible terrified me. Sermon on the mount was too extreme in its demands. As a teenage boy, I was looking at a lot of women with lust, and I was terrified. I remember telling my pastor I don’t feel worthy to take communion. In this discussion, we seem to be pointing at others and saying “There is sin.” This is self-righteousness.
Pr. Dave Glesne, Minneapolis. This statement essentially says that there is sex outside the context of marriage that is OK. This will be the official teaching of the ELCA, and will be incorporated into the teaching materials of this church. Our children will spot this exception a thousand miles away: If sex outside of marriage is OK in this instance, why not in this instance?
Pr. Ann Tiemeyer, Metro NY. Christ came that we might have life, and have it abundantly. This claims me: the good news of the gospel. We all agree on Biblical authority here; we may have various interpretations, but we all stand together and equally confess the authority of Scripture on our faith and life. The abundant life is the good news through which I evaluate the social statement. It’s word against sexual exploitation, human trafficking, this is a call for abundant life.
John Barnes, Pacific. Statement makes a great deal of the “bound conscience” and claims that it reflects Paul and Luther, but it doesn’t. Rather it suggests that everyone’s conscience is the final authority, as though everyone’s conscience is right, good and true. Paul and Luther talked about conscience being bound to Scripture, not to someone else’s opinions.
John Stendahl, New England. This is the most Lutheran statement on sexuality that American Lutherans have ever produced. I think of Bruce and David who brought their daughter for baptism at my church. Story about daughter’s death, and Bruce and David’s love and care for her. If our church says to people like Bruce and David that their love is unclean, I pray we would hear Jesus’s words of judgment on us.
Assembly then was in recess to move to worship.
It is intrinsically wrong to go forward. It is not meet, right and salutary that this assembly vote on God’s commandments. The vast majority of Christians in the world would not even consider this. We are voting on a momentous change in teaching without any theological or Biblical grounds. If we go forward on this, soon “this church” will no longer be part of “the church.
Quick note for those “outside looking in”
PB = Presiding Bishop, Mark Hanson
I’ve heard they have the votes. Boy, am I ever glad I left the ELCA years ago. I doubt there will be a mass exodus over this, but a hemorrhage of individuals, families and congregations. In any event, the ELCA will be a shell of what it once was, and if they believe their budget tightening will suffice they’d better think again.
Apparently the Episcopal lesson hasn’t been learned (or heeded...)
As my chemistry prof told me during my lackadasical sophomore year, “You gotta WANT to learn or else you won’t.”
They realize that there have no where else to go if they want to keep their schwarmerism and priestesses.
God bless this man for pointing out the obvious. Of course, this will probably pass this time, but the ELCA will lose for this hill they are bound and determined to die on. And "die" they will. God's Will be done.
Say what?
A favorite ELCA mantra:
In so far as the translation contains the word of God.
Hansen will go down in church history as the fool who pushed the button.
Quite right.
The wonder is this: There are many people within ELCA congregations, as the above comments demonstrate, who do not simply disagree with the hierarchy of their church body, but who know, KNOW, that they are wrong in this and so many other things that have preceded this. They know that the hierarchy and, let’s be brutally honest, the overwhelming majority of their pastors, however “nice” they appear to be, are in fact in open rebellion against God. Many such people have confused Christian with “nice,” and so they tolerate in the name of niceness the perversion of God’s Word and its plain, clear meaning.
The only way the pastors, if such they can be called, of the ELCA will ever get the message from the people that they are a disgrace to the church and an offense to God is if the people stop supporting them. That is to say, walk out, take your offerings with you, and go look for a Lutheran church that is still Lutheran, that is, still based on “Grace Alone, Faith Alone, Scripture Alone,” that is, on “Christ Alone.” The ELCA has become the Titanic and worse, its committee of captains is out cruising the seas looking for icebergs to hit instead of endeavoring to do their duty before God and bring their passengers safely to their destination, that is, heaven. They have deluded themselves into thinking that they can and should build a heaven on earth (Karl Marx, former Lutheran, call your office) while neglecting their prime charge from Christ. The only way to change the ELCA for the better is to leave the ELCA.
Finding a faithful Lutheran church in any particular area will not be simple, because the infection of skepticism and apostasy, both hard and soft, is widespread. Do not look only and simply at the synodical affiliation of any particular congregation - although that is not unimportant - but look at, listen to, measure what the pastor preaches and teaches against the Holy Scriptures and the Small Catechism. If you find a pastor who preaches and teaches faithfully in accord with the Scriptures and the Lutheran Confessions (Book of Concord of 1580), and the congregation supports him in this, blessed are you, join that congregation and be faithful and active. If you find a truly faithful pastor who is under fire in the congregation FOR TEACHING THE TRUTH, well ... join and help him uphold the truth.
The people in the pews, the sheep who still hear the Good Shepherd’s voice, must follow Him. It is the only solution. God will fix the rest in His own good time, as He promises to do.
Oops! I meant Hanson...I justed pissed off either the Swedes or the Norskies!
Very good.
I should go back and count the number of words I used. I don’t think it was a thousand. But your picture - and the speed with which you did it - is certainly worth a thousand words. Bravo.
Maybe, God willing, a few more will see it and jump ship! The sea these days may be stormy, but the boat Christ is in is quite safe, as a few fishermen long ago discovered. Again, bravo.
Last May the following item was reported in various news outlets:
A passerby pushed a would-be suicide jumper off a bridge in southern China because he was angry at the jumper's "selfish activity," Chinese media reported Saturday.
It happened Thursday in the city of Guangzhou as Chen Fuchao threatened to jump off Haizhu Bridge, China's Xinhua news agency reported.
The bridge has gained a "macabre" reputation with 11 jumpers having thrown themselves off the bridge since the start of April, Xinhua said. Traffic was held up for nearly five hours and a crowd gathered as Chen sat on the bridge, threatening to jump, Xinhua reported.
Like the passerby in the story above, a lot of people are losing patience with the shenanigans foisted on society by the elca "leadership."
The whole thing grows more and more tedious with each escalating repetition. Jump or get off the bridge. Either way, let the rest of the world pass.
In my Church there will be a mass exodus. The other alternative is to become an independent Lutheran Church. If the vote for that does not happen, I have a Missouri Synod, or a Wisconsin Synod Church to choose from. “Forgive them Father for they know not what they do”.
Commentary from various ELCA members/pastors at “The Wittenberg Trail indicates some churches looking at removing themselves from the ELCA to members/families leaving. As Cletus.D.Yokel wrote upthread, much depends on what options there are for individual congregations and their members. This is why I suggested it will be a hemorrhage and not a mass exodus. Of course, I refer to the whole, not individual units.
I’m LCMS. Was, ELCA, before that WELS, and born LCMS. So I’ve come full circle. I’m home.
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