Posted on 02/14/2009 6:41:48 PM PST by restornu
Was Hebrew DNA recently found in American Indian populations in South America? According to Scott R. Woodward, executive director of Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation, a DNA marker, called the "Cohen modal haplotype," sometimes associated with Hebrew people, has been found in Colombia, Brazil and Bolivia.
But it probably has nothing to do with the Book of Mormon -- at least not directly.
For years several critics of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and of the Book of Mormon have claimed that the lack of Hebrew DNA markers in living Native American populations is evidence the book can't be true. They say the book's description of ancient immigrations of Israelites is fictional.
"But," said Woodward, "as Hugh Nibley used to say, 'Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.' "
Critic Thomas Murphy, for example, wrote in one article about how the Cohen modal haplotype had been found in the Lemba clan in Africa. The Lemba clan's oral tradition claims it has Jewish ancestors.
Murphy then complained, "If the (Book of Mormon) documented actual Israelite migrations to the New World, then one would expect to find similar evidence to that found in a Lemba clan in one or more Native American populations. Such evidence, however, has not been forthcoming."
Until now.
So will Murphy and other critics use this new evidence of Hebrew DNA markers to prove the Book of Mormon is correct? Probably not. But neither should anyone else.
Why?
According to Woodward, the way critics have used DNA studies to attack the Book of Mormon is "clearly wrong." And it would be equally wrong to use similar DNA evidence to try to prove it.
This is because "not all DNA (evidence) is created equal," Woodward said.
According to Woodward, while forensic DNA (popularized in TV shows like "CSI") looks for the sections of DNA that vary greatly from individual to individual, the sections of DNA used for studying large groups are much smaller and do not change from individual to individual.
Studies using this second type of DNA yield differing levels of reliability or, as Woodward calls it, "resolution."
At a lower resolution the confidence in the results goes down. At higher resolution confidence goes up in the results.
Guess which level of resolution critics of the Book of Mormon use?
The critics' problem now is what they do with the low-resolution discovery of Hebrew DNA in American Indian populations.
For people who believe that the Book of Mormon is a true account, the problem is to resist the temptation to misuse this new discovery.
Woodward says that most likely, when higher-resolution tests are used, we will learn that the Hebrew DNA in native populations can be traced to conquistadors whose ancestors intermarried with Jewish people in Spain or even more modern migrations.
Ironically, it is the misuse of evidence that gave critics fuel to make their DNA arguments in the first place. According to Woodward, the critics are attacking the straw man that all American Indians are only descendants of the migrations described in the Book of Mormon and from no other source.
Although some Latter-day Saints have assumed this was the case, this is not a claim the Book of Mormon itself actually makes. Scholars have argued for more than 50 years that the book allows for the migrations meeting an existing population.
This completely undermines the critics' conclusions. They argue with evangelic zeal that the Book of Mormon demands that no other DNA came to America but from Book of Mormon groups.
Yet, one critic admitted to Woodward that he had never read the Book of Mormon.
Woodward also sees that it is essential to read the Book of Mormon story closely to understand what type of DNA the Book of Mormon people would have had. The Book of Mormon describes different migrations to the New World. The most prominent account is the 600-B.C. departure from Jerusalem of a small group led by a prophet named Lehi. But determining Lehi's DNA is difficult because the book claims he is not even Jewish, but a descendant of the biblical Joseph.
According to Woodward, even if you assume we knew what DNA to look for, finding DNA evidence of Book of Mormon people may be very difficult. When a small group of people intermarry into a large population, the DNA markers that might identify their descendants could entirely disappear -- even though their genealogical descendants could number in the millions.
This means it is possible that almost every American Indian alive today could be genealogically related to Lehi's family but still retain no identifiable DNA marker to prove it. In other words, you could be related genealogically to and perhaps even feel a spiritual kinship with an ancestor but still not have any vestige of his DNA.
Such are the vagaries, ambiguities and mysteries of the study of DNA.
So will we ever find DNA from Lehi's people? Woodward hopes so.
"I don't dismiss the possibility," said Woodward, "but the probability is pretty low."
Woodward speculated about it, imagining he were able to identify pieces of DNA that would be part of Lehi's gene pool. Then, imagine if a match was found in the Native American population.
But even then, Woodward would be cautious. "It could have been other people who share the same (DNA) markers," said Woodward about the imaginary scenario.
"It's an amazingly complex picture. To think that you can prove (group relationships) like you can use DNA to identify a (criminal) is not on the same scale of scientific inquiry."
Like the Book of Mormon itself, from records buried for centuries in the Hill Cumorah, genetic "proof" may remain hid up unto the Lord.
Yeppers...
And I’ll cute ‘N’ short too...
But me feetz is wee ones...
:(
Well, why did he pretend to be one then ????
And the answer is...
For money, sex and power He wasn't pretending...
There Fixed it!
it would be as if I were to repent to God for being critical the last Grisham novel...
______________________________________________
Shame on you...
Are you equating a Grisham novel of which I have read ALL of them...
and that piddly unimaginative scribble called the book of mormon that a Kindergartener would be ashamed of ...
and would get spanked for writing ???
:o)
Joseph smith did not chose to a be a prophet,
_______________________________________
Well, why did he pretend to be one then ????
And the answer is...
For money, sex and power
and abusive control over people...
I think, towards the end, Joe Smith really believed he was a prophet.
I also think that lady that was committed to the hospital where my wife works really was convinced she had swallowed her Cockier Spaniel also, so the bar is not really set to high...
I wonder who different things would have been if ole’ Joe had the benefit of modern behavioral health treatments..
Yes, the Bible only works for those of us who believe it...
Anything to let your self out of a debate?
OK, so since you think you can't, you can't learn from me... (a self fulfilling prophecy!)
Even pagans knew better than that:
A truly wise man can learn from even a fool. - Confucius
I was just equating fiction with fiction...
Cattle prod?
Has potiential...
I think Grisham is on God’s reading list...
Whereas...
you can’t learn from me
_______________________________________
That reminds me...
You dont have anything of value to teach anyone...
You broke one of my good dishes the other night when you were washing them...
Someone oughta learn ya how to wash bone china...
We better start with plastic...
Then someone will get back to you after that about a calling in more important dish washing...
A truly wise man can learn from even a fool. - Confucius
___________________________________________
I did that...
The fool, Joey Smith taught me to stay far away from evil like his home made “religious” scam...
Meanwhile the God of the Bible taught me this about fools like Joey Smith...
Stay away from a fool like Joey Smith, because you will not receive knowledge from his lips. Proverbs 14:7
Even when the fool named Joey Smith walks along the road, his sense is lacking and he demonstrates to everyone that he is a fool. Ecclesiastes 10:3
A fool always loses his temper, But a wise man holds it back. Proverbs 29:11
Joey Smith had a vile temper...several times he beat up other men like a savage beast...
The way of a fool like Joey Smith is right in his own eyes, But a wise man is he who listens to counsel. Proverbs 12:15
Even a fool, when he keeps silent, is considered wise; When he closes his lips, he is considered prudent. Proverb 17:28
However the fool, Joey Smith never shut up ...
Do not answer a fool with his own stupidity, or you will be like him. Proverbs 26:4
I answer that stupidity of Joey Smith’s he called the book of mormon, with the True and only Word of God, the Bible...
Godless fools like Joey Smith speak foolishness, and their minds plan evil in order to do ungodly things. They speak falsely about the LORD. They let people go hungry and withhold water from thirsty people. Isaiah 32:6
The fool Joey Smith has said in his heart, “There is no God.” Psalm 14:1
When Joey Smith died in that shhot out he had a pagan medal of Jupiter representing control, with Masonic and pagan symbols around his neck. He had lived a life of the occult along with his family..
A fool’s mouth is his ruin, And his lips are the snare of his soul. Proverbs 18:7
Joey Smith ran his boastful mouth against the God of the Bible one time to many,...
and God destroyed that fool, Joey Smith...
And the fool, Joey Smith wound up in Hell...
You sure do find your way to these threads don’t you EJ? Anything substantive to add to the discussion at hand, something to do w/ the thread? At one point, I kind of thought you were above the “drive by” quips.
Even though I disagreed w/ you often, some of your posts were actually intellectual in nature. Maybe it’s the crowd you’re hanging with.
Reno,
Here is something relevant to this thread on DNA - a former
mormon who has written extensively about the problems of
DNA and the book of moroni.
He also details why he left the mormon church. It’s a great read.
“In spite of this apprehension I am compelled to reveal my experiences in the hope that it will help others find the truth. My name is Simon Southerton, I am married to Jane and we are the parents of five children aged between 6 and 15 years. We left the Church together towards the end of 1998. At the time I was a bishop in Brisbane, Australia.
To my surprise I have found that most exmormons I have communicated with since then were once committed believers like me and not the moral bankrupts depicted by the Church. I now have ample appreciation of the extent to which the LDS Church conceals truth and controls the flow of information to members in order to maintain the faith of the saints... [click here to finish reading =>> http://www.exmormon.org/whylft125.htm]
Ok
And an illustration of your tagline as well...
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