The Blessed Virgin in the History of Christianity [Ecumenical]

Insight Scoop ^ | January 1, 2009 | John A. Hardon, S.J.

[Always Right]

"Let it be done to me according to thy word" - the Incarnation would not have occurred. But that also is God's will.

We should all be grateful for Mary's faith and obedience to the word and giving birth and raising our Savior. But there is nothing to suggest that another person could not have been chosen by God to have done it had Mary not.

[tbpiper]

without Mary there would not have been a christianity

Are you saying that a single human being had the power to thwart the will of the Almighty God?

[the invisib1e hand]

Catholics have somehow made Mary the mother of the Creator.

Let's slow down a bit. What I said was a fact, which also happens to be a Catholic teaching.

Let's go over it again:

You: God is not dependent on any one person.

Me: You're right. What baby is dependent upon his mother?

So, is it only Catholics that teach that

1. Jesus is God;
2. Jesus is man;
3. All men have mothers;
4. Therefore Jesus had a mother;
5. All babies are completely dependent upon one person: their mother;
6. Therefore, God was completely dependent upon one person: his mother (Mary).

I don't think it can be any clearer.

[AnAmericanMother]

Here's a lovely depiction, one you don't see every day:

Ki-Chang Kim, The Adoration of the Shepherds.

[AnAmericanMother]

But God chose Mary, and God chose that Mary should be free to choose, but since God is outside of time, He also knew what Mary's choice would be. But she was free to make it. It goes round and round.

Think of the last scene in C.S. Lewis's The Great Divorce, when the narrator and George MacDonald are looking at the chessboard.

[Always Right]

kind of like the proof which ends up showing 1+1=3. It may sound logical, but the result is clearly not true.

[big'ol_freeper]

kind of like the proof which ends up showing 1+1=3. It may sound logical, but the result is clearly not true.

A lover of the Truth would never think that 1+1=3 sounds logical.

[AnAmericanMother]

But as they always said at my husband’s alma mater, Georgia Tech, 1+1=3, for sufficiently large values of 1.

[the invisib1e hand]

It may sound logical, but the result is clearly not true.

And it's statements like that which sealed the deal for me, after 20+ years of devout evangelical Christianity, to return to my beloved home, The Church of Rome.

Godspeed, FRiend.

[Always Right]

1+1=3 is as logical as Mary being the Mother of God.

[narses]

+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.

Obama Says A Baby Is A Punishment

Obama: “If they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby.”

[vladimir998]

Is that Korean? The name and hats make me think so.

Here’s a Chinese Virgin and Child painting that blows me away: http://alvinrobina.topcities.com/blogger/uploaded_images/church03-792196.jpg

[big'ol_freeper]

There is nothing logical about Mary being the Mother of God, but alas Jesus, fully human and fully God, is her child and she His mother...all praise and glory to Him.

Where you are confused is that you believe that Mother of God equals creator, which it does not.

[vladimir998]

I have been lucky enough to go to Florence twice. Boticelli’s paintings are just amazing. I just prefer those classics to most modern renderings!

[Always Right]

And it's statements like that which sealed the deal for me, after 20+ years of devout evangelical Christianity, to return to my beloved home, The Church of Rome. Godspeed, FRiend.

God bless you in that. There are just too many things I disagree with in the Catholic teaching. But then again, I don't think any single church has all the answers. But we can agree that Jesus is our Savior, which is the most important belief of all.

[the invisib1e hand]

A lover of the Truth would never think that 1+1=3 sounds logical.

Well, apart from the repulsive passive-aggressiveness of a comment like this, we can cite some simple abstract mathematical concepts to show that the only reason a statement like "1+1=3" is "illogical" is that it logically follows from a set of rules that is agreed upon. There are spaces in mathematics where different rules may apply, and this statement would be utterly untrue there, and then you'd be sniping me in the other direction.

The moral of this analogy, dear FRiends, is that the Almighty makes the rules in all the dimensions, and He's the one who, being God, became man, and, being God, chose to become a mere servant (which by definition is a dependent)-- the theme is woven throughout scripture and so handily dispatches the argument that "God is not dependent on any man therefore he cannot have a mother." God made the rules. He chose to be dependent. You're telling Him he can't do that, because if he does, you might have to believe the Church is His Church.

Ave, Maria!

[Always Right]

Where you are confused is that you believe that Mother of God equals creator, which it does not.

That is why I perfer the use of the title Mother of Jesus, which is biblical.

[big'ol_freeper]

I think you replied to the wrong poster...or misunderestimated my post...I’m on the “good guys” team.

Ave Maria indeed.

[big'ol_freeper]

That is why I perfer the use of the title Mother of Jesus

Well, there is the crux of the problem with "reformed" thinkers.

[the invisib1e hand]

Well, that ought to keep you in line. ;)

I guess I misunderstood -- apologies. However, the logic is still pretty good - mine, anyway. Maybe you can explain your post a little better.