Theological Word Of The Day: Amyraldism

TWOTD ^ | October 31, 2008

[Gamecock]

Named after Moses Amyraut, a theologian of the 17th century, Amyraldism is a form of Calvinism that distinguishes itself by a belief in universal atonement. Its variation from the traditional Calvinistic understanding of limited atonement comes in its formulation of divine decrees. Whereas traditional Calvinism places God’s decree to elect before his decree to atone for the sins of the elect (thereby making the atonement limited to the elect), Amyraldism places God’s decree to atone for the sins of all mankind before his decree to elect some (thereby making the atonement universal). While this view is sometimes referred to as four-point Calvinism, most traditional Calvinists would rather it be called “inconsistent Calvinism” or “hypothetical universalism.” Amyraldism holds to the traditional Calvinistic view of unconditional election, perseverance of the saints, irresistible grace, and total depravity.

[Gamecock]

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[fproy2222]

Another way to be saved.

Which do you think is right, and why?

[Gamecock]

There is only one way. Arminians, Calvinists and Amyraldians all agree on that Salvation is through Christ alone.

That is the way, and not through heretical cults like Mormonism.

[Tennessee Nana]

traditional Calvinism places God’s decree to elect before his decree to atone for the sins of the elect (thereby making the atonement limited to the elect)
______________________________________________

Would that not be what Jesus said...

“whosoever will” not everyone regardless ????

Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, [and] the bright and morning star.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And WHOSOEVER WILL, let him take the water of life freely.

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book. Revelation 22:16-19

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Well that’s clear....

And the unchangable Word of God...

Jhn 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

Jhn 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:15-18

BTW the Name of the Son is JESUS...

Act 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, [even] by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

Act 4:11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

For your enjoyment and edification..

Sandi Patty singing “No Other Name But Jesus”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=833S19mxOzw

[fproy2222]

There is only one way. Arminians, Calvinists and Amyraldians all agree on that Salvation is through Christ alone.

+++++++++++++
Salvation is through Christ.

Yet that one way you speak of has been defined in so many different paths, and these paths are often opposing to each other.

“a form of Calvinism that distinguishes itself by a belief in universal atonement”
and
“traditional Calvinistic understanding of limited atonement comes in its formulation of divine decrees”

I have trouble when you say that only a few of us will be saved is the same as all of us will be saved.

Just these two paths to salvation look to be so different, so opposite, yet, you seem to be saying that they are the same.

Again, which path is the correct path, and why do you think it is?
I do not see how they can be the same.

[Elsie]

That is the way, and not through heretical cults like Mormonism.

Hey!

Why do you express such HATRED t'ward us?

Here is how WE are 'saved'...

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Right there in #3!!!

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Here is the creed of the LDS Organization; based in Salt Lake City:

 

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Articles of Faith

The Articles of Faith outline 13 basic points of belief of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
The Prophet Joseph Smith first wrote them in a letter to John Wentworth, a newspaper editor,
in response to Mr. Wentworth's request to know what members of the Church believed.
They were subsequently published in Church periodicals.
They are now regarded as scripture and included in the Pearl of Great Price.

 

 

 

THE ARTICLES OF FAITH
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
History of the Church, Vol. 4, pp. 535—541

 

 

1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
   
2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
   
3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
   
4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
   
5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
   
6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
   
7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
   
8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
   
9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
   
10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
    
11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
    
12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
    
13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Joseph Smith

 

 

 

Definitions of creed:

• From the Latin word "credere" -- to believe. A short statement of religious belief, usually motivated by a desire to emphasize church teaching as opposed to a heresy.
• A formal summary of religious belief; an authoritative statement of doctrine
• Any system of principles or beliefs
• Religious doctrine: the written body of teachings of a religious group that are generally accepted by that group
• A creed is a statement or confession of belief — usually religious belief — or faith.
• A statement of religious beliefs agreed by the church to be true.
• A system of religious beliefs, including moral or ethical beliefs about right and wrong, that are sincerely held with the strength of traditional religious views.
• A statement of faith binding upon a given religious body.
• A statement of faith. 
• A formal statement of religious belief/proclamation of faith 

 

 

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--MormonDude(now you know!)

[Elsie]

I do not see how they can be the same.

Of course not!

You are trying to figure it out by looking thru MORMON spectacles.

[fproy2222]

I do not see how they can be the same.
=+=+=
Of course not!

+++++++++

SOME will be saved.
ALL will be saved.

Please teach me how SOME and All can be the same.

[MarineBrat]

Some of these words should come with pronunciation help. :)

Not that I can’t look it up somewhere, but I think it would go nice at the beginning of your thread.

[Tennessee Nana]

SOME will be saved.
ALL will be saved.

Please teach me how SOME and All can be the same.
_________________________________________________

JosephSmithism is a confusion isnt it ????

[raynearhood]

SOME will be saved.
ALL will be saved.

Please teach me how SOME and All can be the same.

SOME and ALL aren't the same, but some and all aren't the discussion. Arminians, Amyraldists (sp?), and Calvinists ALL agree that some, not all, will be saved. Where we disagree is on the answer to the question, "How will someone come to God?"

I will briefly attempt to summarize the differences in the answers (though the following is not a fully sufficient explaination of anyone's theology)

Some believe that one comes to God on their own, and that salvation is a co-opt between God and man. Some believe that God has chosen some to salvation and that salvation is a gift of Grace and the work of God alone. Some believe that Christ's atoning sacrifice atones for everyones sins and salvation hinges on acceptance of that atonement, whether by free will or by be called by God. Some believe that that makes little sense and that Christ's atoning sacrifice atones for the sins of those who will believe, and that those who will believe do so because of the calling of God.

Whether the way that one accepts the atonement of Christ's sacrifice is by free will or by irresistible grace, salvation hinges on one accepting Christ as his/her Savior.

This is the reason that Methodists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, and Baptists can all accept each other as brothers and sisters in Christ. Because we all believe that salvation is found through Christ alone, whether we agree or disagree on some specifics of theology.

[Elsie]

Please teach me how SOME and All can be the same.

I have no idea.

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Tell me how no one will enter without Joseph Smith approval...

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They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.

He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.

He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.

As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.

Who has made this so?

Have I?

Have this people?

Have the world?

No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.

If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.

If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.

Can you pass without his inspection?

No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.

In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.

They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?

They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?

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"If I ever pass into heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of Prophet Joseph"
--Brigham Young
--JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224

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[Dr. Eckleburg]

If God wanted all men to be saved, all men would be saved.

[fproy2222]

Where we disagree is on the answer to the question, “How will someone come to God?”

++++++++++++++

I do not question that Jesus is the Christ and that salvation comes through him.

To me, I found the question you stated above to be one of the indicators that the system below Him is broke.

[Gamecock]

***I do not question that Jesus is the Christ***

But you would deny that Jesus is God, and has been so for all eternity....

[fproy2222]

You have just shown that there is another part of our beliefs that you do not understand.

Would be nice if you really understood the things you talk about.

[Gamecock]

A statement like that is easy to make, show me where I am wrong.

[fproy2222]

Remember, I do not speak of your beliefs and if they are right or wrong,

I spoke of how your understandings of our teachings of the nature of Christ is wrong.

A good start of your study as to why you got our teachings of the nature of Jesus the Christ wrong, would be too study the title page of the Book of Mormon.

[Elsie]

Remember, I do not speak of your beliefs and if they are right or wrong...

True: that's what the MISSIONAIRIES are trained to do!

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Professor Robert Millet        teaching at the Mission Prep Club in 2004  http://newsnet.byu.edu/video/18773/

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Timeline...    Subject...

 

0:59            "Anti-Mormons..."

1:16            "ATTACK the faith you have..."

2:02           "We really aren't obligated to answer everyone's questions..."

3:57           "You already know MORE about God and Christ and the plan of salvation than any who would ATTACK you."