Posted on 08/25/2008 9:57:47 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
Evangelicals converting to Catholicism has become something of a trend. Many conservative episcopalians caught between a rock and a hard place have opted for a return to Rome. And there are some big names in evangelical theology who have gone over, including the (until just recently) President of the Evangelical Theological Society. Scot MacKnight has just written a piece in the Journal of the Evangelical Theological Society (JETS) trying to figure out why the Roman road has grown more and more popular these days.
The Pontificator has written a series of posts on “Bad Reasons Not To Convert To Catholicism”. (The assumption is that you want to convert, but you have wrongheaded protestant baggage holding you back.) But of course that there are bad reasons-not-to-convert does not imply there are no good reasons-not-to-convert. However I am not going to be offering good reasons not to convert to Roman Catholicism: first, because I’m not positive there are any, though I have my suspicions; second, because I am not in the business of trying to dissuade people of their religious commitments for the sake of winning an argument on the internet. What I am going to do is to critique one very bad reason for turning Roman Catholic which is often used as a sort of bludgeon by triumphal converts against their former protestant co-religionists.
Here is a quote from someone I will not name, discussing the ‘greater joy’ he found upon his conversion to Roman Catholicism:
“Why this greater joy? Because I do not have to be the judge in judgment of the Catholic Church, of the Scriptures, or even of myself. It’s not my job. Millions of people over a period of two thousand years have reflected on our holy faith, and struggled with it, some cases even given up their life for it. Shall I improve on their combined insight, as it is shared with us through the Magisterium? Shall I pit my few decades against millions and millon [sic] of man years? No!”
I have nothing against conversion to Roman Catholicism, and nothing against people being happy about a renewal of their spiritual life that attends upon conversion. But the implication of this quote is that the protestant is a theological solipsist who has arrogated to himself a right to judgment he cannot possibly use well.
I won’t debate whether this is an accurate representation of Protestant theology. (It isn’t, but I’ll leave that to my theologian friends to demonstrate.) At any rate historical ignorance is not an essential part of protestantism, but it certainly is true that Protestantism emphasizes the importance of individual judgment and individual faith and so on.
Which brings me to the problem with the quote above. In making his statement, the author absolves himself of all responsibility and judgment. I don’t have to think anymore about what is true, good and so forth, the Magisterium will tell me. It is hard work to be thoughtful and responsible and to learn judgment. But everything fine is difficult. Thoughtfulness, responsibility and judgment are virtues the cultivation of which the church ought to be in the business of teaching. Indeed these virtues are not lacking from the more mature, reflective expressions of Roman Catholicism I’ve encountered in my life either.
Protestant or Roman Catholic, there is something basically deficient in a person who just goes along with whatever is said at church on the basis of blind authority. Being Roman Catholic does not obviate the necessity of using one’s own judgment just because the Magisterium isn’t always there beside you to tell you what you ought to do in daily life.
And converting to Roman Catholicism doesn’t solve your worry about individualism because it is still you, the individual, who converts. By your act of conversion you make your own private judgment upon the entire 500 year tradition of protestantism. And we have a couple of smart people over in our camp too. So it simply ridiculous to say that you want to be Roman Catholic so you don’t have to act as a judge over history . . . you are always already judging history.
None of this says that one cannot have an appreciation for the past. Just as I have avoided implying that Roman Catholicism as such requires the denial of responsibility, so too should any Roman Catholics avoid implying that Protestantism as such requires the denial of history. To be a Christian well requires both, not a decision between them.
Bettah get enough for 2,000 posts! But first, wait till “Dr” Engelbert get here!
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
Next reason: Because it adds to and takes away from Scripture. Instant disqualification.
There is only one interpretation - there may be many applications...depending upon a person's circumstances.
13When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? 14And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. 15He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
I interpret this to mean that the "rock" is the statement of faith of Peter, and this is what Christ builds his church upon.
Given the number of Popes in the past that have not been Christians in any sense that I can recognize (judiging by their fruits), I don't think I can take the view that it is the office, not the man.
Waill, ya see Father weejus believed that what we wuz doin' had to be anointed bah the Lowered becuz it failt so good an it failt so rahght.
:D
Yes and yet, it was a risk I had to take, given the subject matter.
There is something I don't understand in your comment. You said a person should not take anyone's word as authoritative, and yet you imply that you take your own word as authoritative. Why is your word authoritative for yourself?
You continue to read your bible and to pray for discernment—as most normal Christians do.
I know a strait is narrow, but it is NOT straight.
Hmmmm.
**And converting to Roman Catholicism doesn’t solve your worry about individualism because it is still you, the individual, who converts. **
But a person has a guide — the Church for the interpretation of things.
One no longer has to depend on sola scriptura YOPIOS.
YOPIOS — (for the newbies) Your Own Personal Interpretation Of Scripture. LOL!
I guess it’s time for some more convert threads. LOL!
You are making me sob. What a loss.
On the other hand, I know what I think and why I think it. I can test the logic and soundness of my own reasoning and that of others, but I cannot know what their biases are as I do my own.
At some point you have to make a choice as to what is right, at least as far as you can determine. I prefer to do that for myself rather than on the authority of anyone else, even God.
The fact that I agree, in general, with the theology of the Baptist church that I attend does not mean that I accept the pastor's authority in all things theological. As he is a seminary trained professional, naturally I treat his opinions with respect, but accept them only if I have verified his thoughts in my own mind.
He doesn't answer to God for me, nor I for him. I have to make up my own mind.
Thank you for clarifying.
you’re welcome. I always enjoy clarifying my thoughts for others as it helps me clarify them for myself.
“even God”.. That should have been “except God”. But then, how do I know what He wants, except by studying His Word?
And, chesley, we are told to STUDY to show ourselves approved. Too often we take one verse, and that out of context, and build our beliefs around it. We need the whole counsel of God, not just a few verses stuck here and there to spin into our agenda.
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