Two Christians visit the Manti Pageant

CARM Email

[Gamecock]

On the 20th and 21st, last week, Ryan and I drove down to Salt Lake City in Utah to stay with Bill McKeever of mrm.org. Bill, with several of his friends, along with Ryan and I, attended the Manti pageant. It is an event were Mormons gather to watch a pageant put on by the Mormon church. Basically, it is a public play where actors recount the means by which the "gospel was restored." I watched it and it is a blatant misrepresentation of the state of the Christian church in the early 1800s. The play represents Christianity as a mass of churches that do nothing but contradict each other while each one claims to be the only true church. This, of course, is not how it was but this is how the Mormons represent Christianity. It is a straw man, a false representation of the facts.

Because it is an annual event, a lot of Christians go there to witness. So picture this. 10,000 to 15,000 people milling around in a half mile by half-mile area were Mormons and Christians are interacting, arguing, debating. Both Ryan and I spoke with several Mormons over the two nights that we were there. We got to share the Gospel many times. One of the Christians at Manti named Aaron, who works with Bill McKeever, was standing on a small pedestal and preaching the gospel. A small crowd gathered around him to listen. As he would gather the crowd, a lot of Christians would gather as well and listen to the comments made by the Mormons. Then, they would start conversations with the individual Mormons and try to witness to them and present them the truth. As you can imagine, a lot of the conversations were heated but most of them were quite polite.

At one point while Aaron was preaching a young teenager approached Aaron and threw a cup of water on him. Aaron reacted in the most gracious manner possible. He called the young man back and gave him five dollars. The young man accepted it and then Aaron used the altercation as an illustration to talk about Grace, getting what you do not deserve. It was great!

Here's something that was quite interesting. There were bathrooms on private property attached to the street in Manti where people were milling around. Since it was a public event, the bathrooms were open to everyone. However, at one point the Mormons with the help of security and the police said that the Christians could not use the bathrooms. You might ask how they could tell the difference. Apparently the Mormons in security had been watching the Christians who kept starting conversations in the street near the bathrooms. As the night wore on and some of the Christians tried to use the facilities, the security and police turned them away. So, we call this bladdergate. Anyway, the Mormons did not come off looking too good and on Saturday night there was no such restriction.

[MHGinTN]

What are the dates?... Have Moho, Will Travel.

[greyfoxx39]

Apparently the Mormons in security had been watching the Christians who kept starting conversations in the street near the bathrooms. As the night wore on and some of the Christians tried to use the facilities, the security and police turned them away. So, we call this bladdergate. Anyway, the Mormons did not come off looking too good and on Saturday night there was no such restriction.

So revealing....somewhat like the attempts by mormons to censor any and everything that doesn't follow the official mormon scenario, "Free speech for mormons, but not for Christians"...where have we heard THIS before?

[MHGinTN]

Got it: June 18th - 20th & 23rd - 27th, 2009
9:30PM in Manti, Utah

[Virginia Ridgerunner]

Wheres the hat?

Here it is...

[colorcountry]

Got it: June 18th - 20th & 23rd - 27th, 2009 9:30PM in Manti, Utah

I'll meet you there. (can I, can I please???)

[MHGinTN]

If this works out, I may swing through her area and pick up foxxie so she can ‘be there’ too. Ping-a-ling-a-ling greyfoxx39

[greyfoxx39]

Would you? Oh, that would be SO lovely! {{{{HUGS}}}}

Be sure to park the MoHo close for potty purposes! ;)

I bet the Binger would bring us some of that great Thunderbird coffee!

[SENTINEL]

I remember I once asked an LDS bishop why we (I was LDS at the time) didn't use the cross symbol at all if we were Christians. He said that if our brother was killed in a car accident we wouldn't remember him by wearing a little crumpled car on a necklace, and that the use of the cross as imagery was repulsive and sick. He said that all Christians had become abominations in the eyes of God, in part by celebrating Christs death, in part by wearing and using crosses.

....And that only Mormons were christians, others claiming to be christians were really pagans or satanists in disguise.

[JamesP81]

From Aaron I learned the jaw-dropping truth that Mormons are fine with the idea that God the Father may have sinned; not only fine with it, but in some cases really love the thought. Chew on that one for awhile, if you have any temptation to think of Mormonism as pretty close to Biblical Christianity.

Indeed. My mom's family is all Mormon. Since I'm a Christian (and a southern baptist to boot) it creates some tension from time to time. But my LDS family believes that God may have once sinned and they also believe that if they live a good enough life, they can become gods themselves. The belief is that God Himself was once but a man, like us, but through his living of a good life became god as we know him know. The LDS church teaches that a similar thing is possible for Mormons.

Of course, none of this is compatible with traditional Christianity, which why I'm not an LDS member any longer.

It's truly surprising how many people think Mormonism is just another Christian denomination when there are, in fact, significant theological differences between Mormonism and traditional Christianity.

[svcw]

Lets see...on FR?

[Utah Binger]

I bet the Binger would bring us some of that great Thunderbird coffee!

Indeed I will! I hear all the French missionaries (Mittster & co.) just use the field for their potty. Coffee at night will require a touch of bourbon or brandy or some of that Bailey's stuff to make it work better.

Just come across I 40 and up Highway 89 from Flagstaff around Lake Powell and over here. We'll have dinner here that night and we'll plug in the MoHo and/or provide an early morning repast.

Come on down! Might have to stop in Panguitch for stocking things up at their liquor store. It's the only State of Utah liquor store that has a beer cooler. I think CC most likely had something to do with that.

[fproy2222]

.that Mormons are fine with the idea that God the Father may have sinned

Just amazing.

Hey Roy, how are you with that idea?

+++++++++++++++++++=
The IDEA is fine.

Heavenly Father love us and wants us to grow and become like He is. He does not need a choir to sit around all day to tell Him how good He is.

What I find hard to believe, as taught by CARM.org, is that God created the elect to be saved, and the rest of us have been created so we can have everlasting pain and torment.

God also has you elect torment those of us who are not elect, so we suffer while in this life.

They teach that God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten Son that who so ever believe on Jesus will go to the good place. God also choose who will believe (the elect). They go to the good place and the rest will go to the bad place, or are snuffed out.

CARM teaches of a God that creates some men to suffer for His pleasure.

You posted some of CARM’s teachings.

[fproy2222]

Because it is an annual event, a lot of Christians go there to witness.

+++++++++++++++++++++=

Anyone else notice that there are many posts here at FR that say the “Mormons” should stay away from other church's events because it is impolite to witness at these events.

[x_plus_one]

pong

[MHGinTN]

This sounding so good, I may have to make a test drive out that way before the snows come in, 'just to be sure I can find everything'. :^)

[colorcountry]

Anyone else notice that there are many posts here at FR that say the “Mormons” should stay away from other church's events because it is impolite to witness at these events.

No.

Can you perhaps find a link to just one?

[Godzilla]

The IDEA is fine.

Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone. (James 1:13)

What I find hard to believe, as taught by CARM.org, is that God created the elect to be saved, and the rest of us have been created so we can have everlasting pain and torment.

I know that you know how to post a link. Do so in this case - Show us where at CARM salvation is not offered by Jesus to all.

[Elsie]

It is a straw man, a false representation of the facts.

Joe!!

Say it isn't so!!

[Elsie]

Just to forewarn you, Aaron dialogued with one professor, who told him upfront that the idea was peachy, not knowing who he was. Then when he found out, he said he’d not have admitted it (my wording). So you may find you run up into the fabled Mormon duplicity. Like asking a RC if they pray to dead people.

Wear your hidden camera and sensitive microphone.

[Elsie]

Wear your hidden camera and sensitive microphone.

And you may (likely) capture a Jesse Jackson moment.