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Posted on 05/08/2008 5:04:47 PM PDT by Grig
I am posting this on behalf of many LDS freepers. They will post their own 'signature' to this in the comments below. --- Some of you have noticed lately a lot of LDS (ie: Mormon) threads here on FR. I'm going to tell you why.
For many years there have been several active LDS freepers here. We post to all the forums on relevant issues, and were happy to have a site where conservative values were so openly welcomed.
Those conservative values include faith in God, and freedom of religion. We fully respect the rights of all posters to express their opinions and views on religious matters, even when people choose to use those rights to express criticism of our own faith. We also support the ideas embodied in FR rules against religion bashing. There is no need for hostility and there should be no room for bigotry on FR. Every religion has it's miracles and mysteries. Every faith has things in it that are not or can not be proven, and things that run contrary to what secular science would have us believe. Someone mature and confident in their own faith generally doesn't feel the need to belittle the faith of others.
We have, to the best of our ability, conducted ourselves with civility and dignity. We do not feel that that respect has been returned by some posters (putting it mildly).
When Mormon missionaries were murdered, the moderators were kept busy pulling jubilant posts off the thread. When Elizabeth Smart was abducted from her home, we contended for months with posters who appeared to be motivated by religious bigotry doing all they could to smear the family and accuse the father. Several posters openly admitted their religious motivation in opposing Mitt Romney and confessed that no matter how conservative any Mormon was, they would never vote for one for President of the USA. When the Pope died, I don't think any Mormon poster posted anything unkind, yet the thread about the passing of our President recently needed many comments removed.
Nearly every thread having any connection with Mormons, or Utah winds up being hijacked by anti-Mormon activists who copy and paste the same false accusations over and over even when it has been clearly and factually pointed out to them on multiple occasions that they are bearing false witness against our faith. Everything possible is done by these activists to make FR a hostile place for Mormons, and for at least some of them, bashing Mormonism is all they do here. Their most recent project is trying to blur the fact that the polygamous FLDS is a separate and distinct religion from ours, just as Lutherans are a separate and distinct religion from Catholicism.
In our opinion, such poster do a great disservice to FR and to their fellow freepers by spreading disinformation and promoting hostility towards a people known for walking the walk of conservative values.
Why the moderators here don't see the behavior of these anti-Mormon activists as religion bashing is a mystery to us, but it is the moderators call to make and we respect their right to do so. That doesn't mean we have to be passive however. We have all spent many hours refuting the accusations leveled at our faith, but these wind up buried deep in a flood of comments, effectively shouting us down.
Recently some of us have decided to take a more proactive approach. Rather than try to wrestle the pig into taking a bath, we are just going to hose it down. We will actively define our faith here rather than just respond to accusations.
So expect to see lots of Mormon threads, now and for as long as we see fit to keep posting them (although probably not as many as there are Catholic threads). They will be about our basic doctrines and responses to common accusations. If you want to know what our faith is about, read the articles we post. We will post them as open threads and I encourage you to compare the difference in tone and spirit between what we post and what our critics say.
I merely posted SCRIPTURE that was NOT conceived in a hat!
Say it once, twice or a million times.
It is YOU who are defying what SCRIPTURE has plainly said: No interpretation needed.
This is the most unbelievable post I have every read.
Is your God fallible delphi? My God isn’t, and if he wants something in the Bible it is in there. You strain at knats over a comma?
It is only human understanding that is fallible, the world and everything in the world is corrupt. But God speaks to us. Perhaps you should listen.
Wow! Are you ever unable to read what is written!
Just on this part, alone, you show complete illiteracy in reading and comprehending what is written: -maybe it is your false translation? You can get the manuscripts online to compare the original words written and the concordance helps you see the original and what it means, at www.blueletterbible.org
Genesis 1 : 3 - 5 On the first day of creation, God created light, and separated light from the darkness.
Light is a separate creation than the sun and stars. When God said “Let there be light”, there was light, and God divided the light from the dark, that made an evening and a morning =one whole and complete first day.
That light is not the sun, nor the stars.
The sun, moon and stars were created in place on day four: Gen 1:15 “lights firmament heaven light earth” are the Hebrew words of Genesis 1:15.
Light is Scripture has a dwelling place -and it isn’t the sun, moon, or the stars, either;
Do you know the way where light dwells? [it is not the sun!]
Job 38:19 Where [is] the way [where] light dwelleth? and [as for] darkness, where [is] the place thereof,
Light dwells with Him;
Dan 2:22 He revealeth the deep and secret things: he knoweth what [is] in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with him.
And He is Light unapproachable, and the Son of Man, in the Person of God the Word, dwells in Him;
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality [Jesus, as second Man], dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom [be] honour and power everlasting. Amen.
God -in the Person of the Word, who is come in flesh and is Jesus the Christ- created trees and grasses on day three of creation week: Genesis 1:10-13, and beasts, creeping things and Adam, on day six: Genesis 1:24-28
Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, [it was] very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Gen 2:1¶Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
The creation was finished on day six -complete.
Now, a synopsis of it as it relates to Adam begins in chapter 2:
Gen 2:4 ¶These [are] the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, And every plant of the field, before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and [there was] not a man to till the ground. But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
I haven’t time at the moment to reply to all your biblical errors, but as I have time, I will. The above alone is enough to show that you need a biblical literacy class.
oops! -”light in Scripture, has a dwelling place”...
You are in error about when the book of Revelation was written, and the Gospel of John is the testimony of Jesus Christ’s life and doctrine, as John gave his own living witness of it, as also Matthew did, which testimonies are also confirmed by Luke and Mark who were neither of them disciples and apostles.
So the Revelation Jesus gave John is the last Word from God to mankind, and was given after His teachings were delivered for three and a half years to the Apostles and disciples, and was delivered after His death, after His resurrection, and and after His ascension and seating on the Throne of His Glory.
LOL! Now you are denying (in an oh so deniable way denying) that you ever said that, Tennessee Nana, didn’t you say that increased your esteem for Godzilla? What’s your opinion now that he refuses to admit what he said earlier? Who is obfuscating here, the guy who is refusing to admit if he is paid or not, or the guy asking for clarification? what say you Nana?
_______________________________________________
I say...
HUH ?????????
# 1330
Umm, not to sound TOO ignorant, but what is meant by a paid theologian? A minister?
Amen. It’s nice when we can do it between denominations as well. Mxxx
You lied about what I said in my post, setting up a straw man for you to attack, BTW:
You claimed this: “If the Bible can be shown to contradict itself in only one place, your argument ceases to hold water.”
And yet I said nothing of the sort that you are stating. When the collection of books we call the Bible states “Thus saith the LORD”, then nothing in the collection of books which we call the Bible can contradict anything stated as “Thus saith the LORD”.
The sacred writings do not contradict the doctrine of “Thus saith the LORD” in any way. the sacred writings we call the Bible do not contradict the nature of the Person or the work of the LORD Jesus Christ.
No one can write anything and call it “inspired” as “Thus saith the LORD” since Jesus Christ came in flesh and gave His doctrine, and finished His work of redemption.
He is returning, and the doctrine of His return is first written of by Enoch and is lastly written of by John, who got the “Revelation of Jesus Christ” from Him, to write.
That Revelation closes what God speaks to this present creation. He has nothing to add and nothing is taken away, and anyone who does add anything or take anything away is anethema -cursed forever- from what His doctrine and teaching is as is revealed in the Gospels and Revelation, and which are all about the fulfillment of what is already prophesied and taught, in the law and the prophets, anyway.
Get that! -Joseph Smith is a fraud and a deceiver for claiming to have anything to say as “thus says the Lord” which has changed and added and taken away from the doctrine of the Person and work of the LORD Jesus Christ, and who is Himself, YHWH come in flesh of second Man creation to be the Kinsman/Redeemer to all Adam.
Joseph Smith is a proven false prophet and his translation is from his own imagination -or worse, as the word nephi is from the Hebrew root for “cast down” =nephil, and is what root word the nephillim [plural] is from.
In Enoch the nephillim/giants/cast down ones [plural] were to be disembodied by wars and by the flood of Noah, and were to be allowed to roam earth as evil spirits after the flood, to deceive into false worship of demons and worship of fallen angels, and to torment and afflict all Adamkind until the day of their removal from the earth at the return of the LORD Jesus Christ, when He comes to cleanse the earth of all things that offend, and comes to burn all the temples of the heathen over all the earth, and comes to establish His reign of Peace over all the earth from Jerusalem, Israel -in the middle east.
I said:“Bible” means collection of books.
One can have in their collection books that are written by men who know God and which books are true and are historical, but which are not “Thus saith the LORD”.
Their books will not contradict anything that is written as “Thus saith the LORD, if they are indeed true.
Joseph Smith’s books contradicted “Thus saith the LORD”.
There is nothing any man has written since Revelation of Jesus Christ that is a word from God in any manner, shape, or form.
Men may write books expounding the Gospel of Christ, and they do write excellent books doing so, but there is nothing added or taken away from that which Jesus Christ has spoken, and His last word is the book of Revealtion.”
When was their (FARMS) Internet website set up – before or after they affiliated with Deserte Books or BYU ?
Really? You assert that they were supported by the Church, Prove it, you can't, cool... I don't have to prove anything, you are the one saying they were a part of the church from the beginning...
That came out of the mouth of your former President. Doubt the founder of the organization was acting in a vacuum.
Yes, I do say that I am not paid by the church, do you have any proof other than you think I am a liar that says otherwise? (crickets...)
I know that your are contextually challenged at times, the free statement was in regards to the professionals at FARMS/Maxwell – not you. Put your victim card away.
I did not insult Jim, he has done a wonderful work here which you twist far from it's political purpose in attacking a religion with his site. IMHO you are a poor house guest.
Incase you haven’t figured it out, this thread is in a Religion forum hosted by FR. Not that you don’t attack other religions. Nor are the forums here for unchallenged promotion of a specific religion over others.
When I started posting here in 2003, it was a not for profit, in 2005 the dinosaur media managed to get that stripped in an attempt to force postings here to be excerpts not full articles. FR started as a Not for Profit, just like FAIR, and like FAIR is not now.
That doesn’t change what it is now does it. Secondly, since you are changing the subject to FAIR vs FARMS/Maxwell, they do so under a 501c3. Since FR is not a church, different IRS tax codes apply, so you logic crashes on that account.
You admit my point, but only for football? LOL! College departments are multi million dollar enterprises, and BYU like any other college that is supported by a church has a large religion department, how much does the Catholic church spend on their web sites (since you brought up new advent)?
And they (BYU/FARMS/Maxwell) pay them salaries to do so. The individuals are getting money to promote their religious views, so they are profiting from the spreading of mormonism. So because they are profiting from spreading the cause of mormonism they are exempt from filty lucre?
I find it humorous that you accuse non-mormons who receive money for doing the same. AFAIAK, the Catholic (or any other church) can spend as much as they want, that is not corrupted as you make it out to be. People working in the church (including ministers) have the right to receive pay and support. If you disagree, then you need to look no further than your church to see the hypocrisy.
You assert that FAIR
The organization being discussed was FARMS/Maxwell – getting your acronyms mixed up.
So, I ask a questions and you refuse to answer... LOL!
You were given the tool to find out in another post.
LOL! Now you are denying (in an oh so deniable way denying) that you ever said that, Tennessee Nana, didn't you say that increased your esteem for Godzilla? What's your opinion now that he refuses to admit what he said earlier? Who is obfuscating here, the guy who is refusing to admit if he is paid or not, or the guy asking for clarification? what say you Nana?
Keep living in your fantasy world DU. But obviously you haven’t figured that out yet.
He obviously hasn’t read this post
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2013341/posts?page=1190#1190
Now, as to comma’s in the “bible”. There weren’t any!
Man adds aids to understanding according to his own understanding.
Translations are not inspired.
Translators are not inspired, but
God’s Word in the original manuscripts is “inspired” -learn that lesson and you will be ahead!
Also, as to your personal favorite, I am happy to inform you that the money Judas threw down in the temple was used to buy the field where he hung himself, and was thereafter used to bury the poor. No one took his body down, and it exploded with the fermentation of the rot.
In Scripture there is a lot of redaction on purpose, as the writer makes his points. Even Moses redacted the story of Adam, as the scribes of the tribes kept the records of the tribes through Noah, Shem, and Abraham-; but the record was there, chronicled by scribes of the tribes, and called “the Book of Jasher [the upright].
Moses used it and redacted from it, in his record, and referred to many things that are fully explained in the true book of Jasher, but which Moses had no need to re-write.
The true Book of Jasher is just history, and is available for anyone to read online at ccel.org, to see how much Moses had available to him through that and how he chose to redact.
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