Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: prayforpeaceofJerusalem
“Bible” means collection of books.

One can have in their collection books that are written by men who know God and which books are true and are historical, but which are not “Thus saith the LORD”. Their books will not contradict anything that is written as “Thus saith the LORD, if they are indeed true. Joseph Smith’s books contradicted “Thus saith the LORD”.

So let me get this straight, the Bible having been corrupted by things like The Johannine Comma, is now the Standard for truth, and God cannot correct any misstatement in the Bible because he would be contradicting his own word even though his word was corrupted?

I am going to make a bald assertion and back it up. "The Bible disagrees with itself."

The Bible is so fragmented that religions concentrating on one scripture or another have broken Christianity up into little fiefdoms of scriptural following. Those who concentrate on one scripture end up in one church and those who concentrate on another in a completely different religion, don't believe me? then you explain why there are so many Christian religions based on this one homogeneous Bible that completely agrees with itself.

If the Bible can be shown to contradict itself in only one place, your argument ceases to hold water.

Now I will give so specific examples where the Bible disagrees with itself: A short and incomplete list of contradictions, more can be found, here. You get all sanctimonious on me about how you can't contradict the Bible when just about every book in it contradicts something else in it somewhere, thus I submit to you it is impossible for anything to completely agree with the Bible, because the Bible itself is inconsistent. Thus since the Bible violates your very premise either your premise of no contradictions is wrong or the Bible ceases to be Scripture, the Bible has been witness testified of as scripture to me By God therefore your premise is wrong. (shocking, I know.)

FYI: Enoch 1 is included in the list of Canon by the Ethiopian Coptic Church, and it has been since the beginning of the NT Church in Ethiopia.
The Book of 1 Enoch confirms all OT and NT doctrines about the Person and work of the LORD Jesus Christ. It was written for the world, for all nations, and it was written for it’s own day and also for this “day”, which is why it was brought back from Ethiopia in the late 1700’s and translated to English in the early 1800’s; for the Holy Spirit has overseen it coming into fashion again, in the west, so that those who seek the LORD who are left alive on earth in the day of tribulation -after the Believers in Christ are taken out of the midst of the earth- will understand. That is what the opening of it begins with, and that is what Jude quoted from.

I couldn't agree more, so far, but your next sentence...

The final book, Revelation, given us by Jesus Christ is only a fulfillment of all that Enoch first saw, and the one explains the other.

Many people believe the Books of the New testament are placed in the order they were written, this is not true, the Catholic Church which compiled the Books of the New Testament were complied by Subject and then length (Gospels, letters, etc See link, Revelations is placed at the Back of the bible for a reason, they didn't understand it, most people still don't, it just makes their head hurt.

Revelations was written in AD 60-65, because John references The seven Churches naming Laodicea by name. Laodicea was in the Lycus valley, which was destroyed in AD 60, rebuilt and destroyed again in AD 65, no reconstruction was started until after Revelations was "out" Revelations had to have been written before AD 65.

There is nothing any man has written since Revelation of Jesus Christ that is a word from God in any manner, shape, or form.

Since The Gospel of John was written by John himself in AD 90-100, not to mention that In Deuteronomy 4 : 2 - 3 There is a similar scripture commanding men not to add to or diminish from it, then obviously, John is talking about the Book of Revelations, thus Revelations was neither intended to be nor is is the final revelation of God to men.

Men may write books expounding the Gospel of Christ, and they do write excellent books doing so, but there is nothing added or taken away from that which Jesus Christ has spoken, and His last word is the book of Revelation.

I repeat, Revelations was neither written last, nor intended to end all revelation from God, neither did Deuteronomy end all revelations from God and if your argument is truly what you believe than you will repudiate the Trinity as a doctrine of men and not of God since it was adopted in AD 325 as the definition of God, and is not to be found anywhere in the Bible.

There will be many who will now claim I am attacking the Bible, I am not, it is the word of God, however, your interpretation of it is not the word of God, and IMHO is not correct.

Did you really want to discuss what is in the Bible, or just the Dogma you have been taught about it?
1,323 posted on 05/14/2008 10:38:37 AM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1087 | View Replies ]


To: DelphiUser

This is the most unbelievable post I have every read.

Is your God fallible delphi? My God isn’t, and if he wants something in the Bible it is in there. You strain at knats over a comma?

It is only human understanding that is fallible, the world and everything in the world is corrupt. But God speaks to us. Perhaps you should listen.


1,324 posted on 05/14/2008 10:57:34 AM PDT by colorcountry (To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1323 | View Replies ]

To: DelphiUser

Wow! Are you ever unable to read what is written!
Just on this part, alone, you show complete illiteracy in reading and comprehending what is written: -maybe it is your false translation? You can get the manuscripts online to compare the original words written and the concordance helps you see the original and what it means, at www.blueletterbible.org

Genesis 1 : 3 - 5 On the first day of creation, God created light, and separated light from the darkness.

Light is a separate creation than the sun and stars. When God said “Let there be light”, there was light, and God divided the light from the dark, that made an evening and a morning =one whole and complete first day.
That light is not the sun, nor the stars.

The sun, moon and stars were created in place on day four: Gen 1:15 “lights firmament heaven light earth” are the Hebrew words of Genesis 1:15.

Light is Scripture has a dwelling place -and it isn’t the sun, moon, or the stars, either;
Do you know the way where light dwells? [it is not the sun!]
Job 38:19 Where [is] the way [where] light dwelleth? and [as for] darkness, where [is] the place thereof,

Light dwells with Him;
Dan 2:22 He revealeth the deep and secret things: he knoweth what [is] in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with him.

And He is Light unapproachable, and the Son of Man, in the Person of God the Word, dwells in Him;
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality [Jesus, as second Man], dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom [be] honour and power everlasting. Amen.

God -in the Person of the Word, who is come in flesh and is Jesus the Christ- created trees and grasses on day three of creation week: Genesis 1:10-13, and beasts, creeping things and Adam, on day six: Genesis 1:24-28

Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, [it was] very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Gen 2:1¶Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

The creation was finished on day six -complete.
Now, a synopsis of it as it relates to Adam begins in chapter 2:

Gen 2:4 ¶These [are] the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, And every plant of the field, before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and [there was] not a man to till the ground. But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

I haven’t time at the moment to reply to all your biblical errors, but as I have time, I will. The above alone is enough to show that you need a biblical literacy class.


1,326 posted on 05/14/2008 11:58:38 AM PDT by prayforpeaceofJerusalem
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1323 | View Replies ]

To: DelphiUser

You are in error about when the book of Revelation was written, and the Gospel of John is the testimony of Jesus Christ’s life and doctrine, as John gave his own living witness of it, as also Matthew did, which testimonies are also confirmed by Luke and Mark who were neither of them disciples and apostles.
So the Revelation Jesus gave John is the last Word from God to mankind, and was given after His teachings were delivered for three and a half years to the Apostles and disciples, and was delivered after His death, after His resurrection, and and after His ascension and seating on the Throne of His Glory.


1,328 posted on 05/14/2008 12:07:19 PM PDT by prayforpeaceofJerusalem
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1323 | View Replies ]

To: DelphiUser

You lied about what I said in my post, setting up a straw man for you to attack, BTW:
You claimed this: “If the Bible can be shown to contradict itself in only one place, your argument ceases to hold water.”

And yet I said nothing of the sort that you are stating. When the collection of books we call the Bible states “Thus saith the LORD”, then nothing in the collection of books which we call the Bible can contradict anything stated as “Thus saith the LORD”.
The sacred writings do not contradict the doctrine of “Thus saith the LORD” in any way. the sacred writings we call the Bible do not contradict the nature of the Person or the work of the LORD Jesus Christ.
No one can write anything and call it “inspired” as “Thus saith the LORD” since Jesus Christ came in flesh and gave His doctrine, and finished His work of redemption.
He is returning, and the doctrine of His return is first written of by Enoch and is lastly written of by John, who got the “Revelation of Jesus Christ” from Him, to write.
That Revelation closes what God speaks to this present creation. He has nothing to add and nothing is taken away, and anyone who does add anything or take anything away is anethema -cursed forever- from what His doctrine and teaching is as is revealed in the Gospels and Revelation, and which are all about the fulfillment of what is already prophesied and taught, in the law and the prophets, anyway.

Get that! -Joseph Smith is a fraud and a deceiver for claiming to have anything to say as “thus says the Lord” which has changed and added and taken away from the doctrine of the Person and work of the LORD Jesus Christ, and who is Himself, YHWH come in flesh of second Man creation to be the Kinsman/Redeemer to all Adam.
Joseph Smith is a proven false prophet and his translation is from his own imagination -or worse, as the word nephi is from the Hebrew root for “cast down” =nephil, and is what root word the nephillim [plural] is from.
In Enoch the nephillim/giants/cast down ones [plural] were to be disembodied by wars and by the flood of Noah, and were to be allowed to roam earth as evil spirits after the flood, to deceive into false worship of demons and worship of fallen angels, and to torment and afflict all Adamkind until the day of their removal from the earth at the return of the LORD Jesus Christ, when He comes to cleanse the earth of all things that offend, and comes to burn all the temples of the heathen over all the earth, and comes to establish His reign of Peace over all the earth from Jerusalem, Israel -in the middle east.

I said:“Bible” means collection of books.
One can have in their collection books that are written by men who know God and which books are true and are historical, but which are not “Thus saith the LORD”.
Their books will not contradict anything that is written as “Thus saith the LORD, if they are indeed true.
Joseph Smith’s books contradicted “Thus saith the LORD”.

There is nothing any man has written since Revelation of Jesus Christ that is a word from God in any manner, shape, or form.
Men may write books expounding the Gospel of Christ, and they do write excellent books doing so, but there is nothing added or taken away from that which Jesus Christ has spoken, and His last word is the book of Revealtion.”


1,335 posted on 05/14/2008 12:28:08 PM PDT by prayforpeaceofJerusalem
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1323 | View Replies ]

To: DelphiUser

Now, as to comma’s in the “bible”. There weren’t any!
Man adds aids to understanding according to his own understanding.
Translations are not inspired.
Translators are not inspired, but
God’s Word in the original manuscripts is “inspired” -learn that lesson and you will be ahead!

Also, as to your personal favorite, I am happy to inform you that the money Judas threw down in the temple was used to buy the field where he hung himself, and was thereafter used to bury the poor. No one took his body down, and it exploded with the fermentation of the rot.

In Scripture there is a lot of redaction on purpose, as the writer makes his points. Even Moses redacted the story of Adam, as the scribes of the tribes kept the records of the tribes through Noah, Shem, and Abraham-; but the record was there, chronicled by scribes of the tribes, and called “the Book of Jasher [the upright].
Moses used it and redacted from it, in his record, and referred to many things that are fully explained in the true book of Jasher, but which Moses had no need to re-write.
The true Book of Jasher is just history, and is available for anyone to read online at ccel.org, to see how much Moses had available to him through that and how he chose to redact.


1,339 posted on 05/14/2008 12:39:51 PM PDT by prayforpeaceofJerusalem
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1323 | View Replies ]

To: DelphiUser

Delphi,
you did not reply to my replies to your post .

Perhaps you missed them.
I paste them here for you to respond to:
`````````````
1 “Wow! Are you ever unable to read what is written!
Just on this part, alone, you show complete illiteracy in reading and comprehending what is written: -maybe it is your false translation? You can get the manuscripts online to compare the original words written and the concordance helps you see the original and what it means, at www.blueletterbible.org
Genesis 1 : 3 - 5 On the first day of creation, God created light, and separated light from the darkness.
Light is a separate creation than the sun and stars. When God said “Let there be light”, there was light, and God divided the light from the dark, that made an evening and a morning =one whole and complete first day.
That light is not the sun, nor the stars.
The sun, moon and stars were created in place on day four: Gen 1:15 “lights firmament heaven light earth” are the Hebrew words of Genesis 1:15.
Light in Scripture, has a dwelling place -and it isn’t the sun, moon, or the stars, either;
Do you know the way where light dwells? [it is not the sun!]
Job 38:19 Where [is] the way [where] light dwelleth? and [as for] darkness, where [is] the place thereof,
Light dwells with Him;
Dan 2:22 He revealeth the deep and secret things: he knoweth what [is] in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with him.
And He is Light unapproachable, and the Son of Man, in the Person of God the Word, dwells in Him;
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality [Jesus, as second Man], dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom [be] honour and power everlasting. Amen.
God -in the Person of the Word, who is come in flesh and is Jesus the Christ- created trees and grasses on day three of creation week: Genesis 1:10-13, and beasts, creeping things and Adam, on day six: Genesis 1:24-28
Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, [it was] very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Gen 2:1¶Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
The creation was finished on day six -complete.
Now, a synopsis of it as it relates to Adam begins in chapter 2:
Gen 2:4 ¶These [are] the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, And every plant of the field, before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and [there was] not a man to till the ground. But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
I haven’t time at the moment to reply to all your biblical errors, but as I have time, I will. The above alone is enough to show that you need a biblical literacy class.
“~~~~~~~~~
!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2 “You are in error about when the book of Revelation was written, and the Gospel of John is the testimony of Jesus Christ’s life and doctrine, as John gave his own living witness of it, as also Matthew did, which testimonies are also confirmed by Luke and Mark who were neither of them disciples and apostles.
So the Revelation Jesus gave John is the last Word from God to mankind, and was given after His teachings were delivered for three and a half years to the Apostles and disciples, and was delivered after His death, after His resurrection, and and after His ascension and seating on the Throne of His Glory.”
`````````````
```````````
3 “You are in error about when the book of Revelation was written, and the Gospel of John is the testimony of Jesus Christ’s life and doctrine, as John gave his own living witness of it, as also Matthew did, which testimonies are also confirmed by Luke and Mark who were neither of them disciples and apostles.
So the Revelation Jesus gave John is the last Word from God to mankind, and was given after His teachings were delivered for three and a half years to the Apostles and disciples, and was delivered after His death, after His resurrection, and and after His ascension and seating on the Throne of His Glory.”
```````````````
``````````````````
“You lied about what I said in my post, setting up a straw man for you to attack, BTW:
You claimed this: “If the Bible can be shown to contradict itself in only one place, your argument ceases to hold water.”
And yet I said nothing of the sort that you are stating. When the collection of books we call the Bible states “Thus saith the LORD”, then nothing in the collection of books which we call the Bible can contradict anything stated as “Thus saith the LORD”.
The sacred writings do not contradict the doctrine of “Thus saith the LORD” in any way. the sacred writings we call the Bible do not contradict the nature of the Person or the work of the LORD Jesus Christ.
No one can write anything and call it “inspired” as “Thus saith the LORD” since Jesus Christ came in flesh and gave His doctrine, and finished His work of redemption.
He is returning, and the doctrine of His return is first written of by Enoch and is lastly written of by John, who got the “Revelation of Jesus Christ” from Him, to write.
That Revelation closes what God speaks to this present creation. He has nothing to add and nothing is taken away, and anyone who does add anything or take anything away is anethema -cursed forever- from what His doctrine and teaching is as is revealed in the Gospels and Revelation, and which are all about the fulfillment of what is already prophesied and taught, in the law and the prophets, anyway.
Get that! -Joseph Smith is a fraud and a deceiver for claiming to have anything to say as “thus says the Lord” which has changed and added and taken away from the doctrine of the Person and work of the LORD Jesus Christ, and who is Himself, YHWH come in flesh of second Man creation to be the Kinsman/Redeemer to all Adam.
Joseph Smith is a proven false prophet and his translation is from his own imagination -or worse, as the word nephi is from the Hebrew root for “cast down” =nephil, and is what root word the nephillim [plural] is from.
In Enoch the nephillim/giants/cast down ones [plural] were to be disembodied by wars and by the flood of Noah, and were to be allowed to roam earth as evil spirits after the flood, to deceive into false worship of demons and worship of fallen angels, and to torment and afflict all Adamkind until the day of their removal from the earth at the return of the LORD Jesus Christ, when He comes to cleanse the earth of all things that offend, and comes to burn all the temples of the heathen over all the earth, and comes to establish His reign of Peace over all the earth from Jerusalem, Israel -in the middle east.
I said: “Bible” means collection of books.
One can have in their collection books that are written by men who know God and which books are true and are historical, but which are not “Thus saith the LORD”.
Their books will not contradict anything that is written as “Thus saith the LORD, if they are indeed true.
Joseph Smith’s books contradicted “Thus saith the LORD”.
There is nothing any man has written since Revelation of Jesus Christ that is a word from God in any manner, shape, or form.
Men may write books expounding the Gospel of Christ, and they do write excellent books doing so, but there is nothing added or taken away from that which Jesus Christ has spoken, and His last word is the book of Reveltion.”
````````````
``````````````

“Now, as to comma’s in the “bible”. There weren’t any!
Man adds aids to understanding according to his own understanding.
Translations are not inspired.
Translators are not inspired, but
God’s Word in the original manuscripts is “inspired” -learn that lesson and you will be ahead!
Also, as to your personal favorite, I am happy to inform you that the money Judas threw down in the temple was used to buy the field where he hung himself, and was thereafter used to bury the poor. No one took his body down, and it exploded with the fermentation of the rot.
In Scripture there is a lot of redaction on purpose, as the writer makes his points. Even Moses redacted the story of Adam, as the scribes of the tribes kept the records of the tribes through Noah, Shem, and Abraham-; but the record was there, chronicled by scribes of the tribes, and called “the Book of Jasher [the upright].
Moses used it and redacted from it, in his record, and referred to many things that are fully explained in the true book of Jasher, but which Moses had no need to re-write.
The true Book of Jasher is just history, and is available for anyone to read online at ccel.org, to see how much Moses had available to him through that and how he chose to redact.”


1,438 posted on 05/16/2008 9:08:45 AM PDT by prayforpeaceofJerusalem
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1323 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson