Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

A Testimony to God's Grace [ex-nun's true story]
Catholic concerns ^ | October 2003 | Mary Ann Collins (A Former Catholic Nun)

Posted on 03/27/2008 10:33:22 AM PDT by Gamecock

I joined the Roman Catholic Church because I was looking for God. I entered the convent because I wanted to be close to God and to serve Him with radical devotion. But it wasn't until after I left Catholicism that I found the kind of relationship with God that I had been looking for all along. You can read about it in my poems.

My pastor and my father have both advised me not to give out personal information. This biography is an attempt to share my heart and my life within the framework of their advice.

I started out as a "liberal" intellectual who was prejudiced against Christianity. I had been taught to believe that Christians were gullible people who were either stupid or uneducated. I was basically an agnostic who didn't know or care whether God existed. For me, the idea of God was irrelevant. I looked to science, psychology, and politics to save mankind from its problems.

During my senior year in high school, I fell in love with a young man who was a devout Catholic. That was my first encounter with someone who strongly believed in God. I may have met Christians before that, but they didn't make their Christian beliefs known to me.

This young man prayed. He loved God. He was a man of principle and integrity. His life was guided by his religious beliefs. He had hope. He had a kind of compassion and respect for people that I had not seen before. There was something different about him. I didn't know what it was, but whatever it was, I wanted it. I figured that it had something to do with his religion, so I started taking instruction in Catholicism. The young man moved away and I didn't see him again, but I continued studying Catholicism.

During my first year of college I majored in biology. I also studied French and Latin. I went to a local priest every week for instruction. Under his direction, I studied many books including the "Baltimore Catechism" and biographies of well known modern Catholics. This was in the days of the Latin Mass, before there was a formal catechumen program. When I returned home for the summer, I found another priest to continue my instruction.

I was unable to return to college the following year. I found another priest to instruct me. For several years I continued to study with that priest, while working to earn money for college. The priest gave me more books to study including a series of booklets on Scripture. (There was a booklet for each book of the Bible. On each page, the top half of the page contained Scripture and the bottom half contained a Catholic commentary about those portions of Scripture.)

My job was close to a Catholic Church, and I went to Mass during lunch hour. I prayed for God to give me faith. I was praying even though I wasn't sure that God existed. My very first prayer was, "God, if You're out there, show me." I didn't take communion because I wasn't a Catholic. I only said as much of the Apostles Creed as I actually believed. It was a long time before I could even say the opening phrase, "I believe in God".

After several years I was baptized a Roman Catholic. Soon afterwards, my brother also became a Catholic. His instruction was through group classes. I attended those classes with him. I was hungry to learn anything that I could about God.

I went to a Catholic college and majored in Religious Education. My classes on Scripture taught a lot of modern "higher criticism," and some of my Religious Education teachers taught things that seemed to be contrary to the official teachings of the Catholic Church. I found a conservative priest and I checked teachings out with him to see if they were the official teaching of the Catholic Church. Because I no longer trusted the teachings of the Religious Education department, I changed majors.

When I entered the convent, I was careful to choose a conservative one which followed the official teachings of the Catholic Church. My training for religious life included studying the documents of the Second Vatican Counsel, other books relating to Catholic doctrine, and biographies of well known saints.

I spent over two years as a postulant and a novice. This was a time of testing for the leaders of the convent, and for me, to decide whether or not I should make vows. My mother superior had some questions about my calling, and she and the leadership decided that I should not remain in the convent. I left the convent on good terms and have occasionally been in contact with the sisters since then.

Our mother superior was very careful about which priests she allowed to say Mass at our convent. We had priests who were loyal to God and to the Catholic Church. They believed the Bible. They were faithful men.

When I left the convent and went to live with my parents, I couldn't find priests like that. The local priests seemed to have little faith and little loyalty, either to God or to the Catholic Church. I remember one Mass where the homily (a short sermon) was so distressing that I left in tears. I stayed outside, weeping. But then I went back in, in order to take communion. I tried every Catholic church in town, but I couldn't find a good priest.

I vividly remember a priest who spoke about Luke 7:38-50. This was the time when Jesus ate in the home of a Pharisee and a woman came and wept and washed Jesus' feet with her tears, and dried them with her hair, and anointed them with ointment. The Pharisee was critical. Jesus told him that he had not washed Jesus' feet, but the woman did. He had not greeted Jesus with a kiss, but the woman kissed his feet. The Catholic priest said that this event must not have really happened, because it would be rude for a guest to say something like that to his host, and Jesus would never have been rude. This illustrates an attitude towards Scripture which I encountered with a number of priests. It was very distressing.

Meanwhile, my parents had become Christians. They had joined a little Methodist church where the pastor believed the Bible and loved the people. Because the local Catholic churches were distressing, I started doing the splits. I went to early morning Mass (out of duty) and then I attended the Methodist church. When my parents joined another Scripturally based Protestant church, I followed them there, while still attending early morning Mass on Sundays. I did the splits for years.

I made myself go to Mass out of duty. But I went to my parents' church eagerly. I learned exciting things about the Bible there. I sang songs that stirred my soul. I took classes that made me more and more hungry for Scripture. I got to know people who were enthusiastic about God. I learned that Biblical principles really work, and that they make a significant practical difference in real life situations.

As I learned more about the Bible, I began to realize that some Catholic teachings are contrary to Scripture. This was disturbing, but I kind of pushed those contradictions to the back of my mind and didn't deal with them. They made me uneasy, but I wasn't emotionally able to handle the idea that there might be something wrong with the Catholic Church.

My brother was a devout Catholic. He assisted the priests at Mass for many years. He lived several hours' drive away from us. We had a tradition that on Easter and Christmas, he would come visit and we would go to Midnight Mass together.

One Christmas, at Midnight Mass, the priest taught that the Christmas story as presented in the Bible is basically a pious fairy tale to make people feel good, but it has nothing to do with reality. My brother got so angry that he wanted to jump up and shout, "Are we here to celebrate it or to debate it?"

The next day, we went to church with our parents. The pastor there told us that Daniel had been in charge of the "wise men" of Babylon (magi). Therefore, they knew about Baalam's prophecy that the King of the Jews would be heralded by a star. Their religion included watching the stars for signs. So when they saw the special star, they realized that it signaled the coming of this special King of the Jews. Also, one of their functions was to decide who the valid king was if there was a controversy about it. So when they came to confirm that Jesus was truly the King of the Jews, they were fulfilling their official function.

Needless to say, the contrast was striking. And troubling. I did a lot of praying after that. By the following Easter, I had left the Catholic Church and joined my parents' church.

I didn't know what to tell my brother and his wife, because they were coming to visit at Easter, and I did not want to go to Midnight Mass with them. We had a long, awkward telephone conversation. Then I finally told them. They started laughing. They had also left the Catholic Church, and were in the process of visiting different churches, trying to find a church home.

There was a prayer that had a major impact on my life, but I don't remember the exact words. When I prayed it, I was crying and I didn't know why. And afterwards, things were different, but it's hard to put into words. The prayer was something like this:

"Jesus, I want to know You. Please reveal Yourself to me and make the Bible come alive for me. I want to be clean and start over again. Please forgive my sins. Wash them away and set me free. I want to live right. Please change my heart. Help me love what You love, and turn away from things that displease You. You know what's best for me. I want to do things Your way. Please be the Lord of my life. Teach me to love the way You love. Help me be faithful to You. Thank You for loving me and for hearing this prayer. Thank You for being my Lord and my Savior."

Since then I have been struggling with issues related to Catholicism. The papers that I have written have emerged from that struggle.

In addition to being a former nun, I am also a widow. My husband and I were very close, and his death introduced me to a level of emotional pain that I didn't know was possible. The articles which I have written about finding God's comfort during times of adversity were born out of my own experience.

My testimony is not unusual. A number of former Catholics have written me sharing how they found a living, personal relationship with God when they became born-again, Bible-believing, Protestants.

Some ex-Catholics read my testimony and wrote to me, wanting to be sure that Jesus Christ is my Lord and my Savior. (He is.) An ex-nun befriended me. Two former priests gave me wise counsel. Other ex-Catholic friends have shared their hearts, their wisdom, and valuable information. I am deeply grateful for these people. May the Lord bless them for their kindness.

POEM

Your Word brings life to save my soul. Your Truth brings light to make me whole.

Your perfect love casts out my fears, Comforts me, and dries my tears.

I'm in the shadow of Your wings Where you teach my heart to sing.

Safe and secure from all alarm, Your faithful love keeps me from harm.

I will bless You all my days. You fill my heart with songs of praise.

NUNS AND NOVICES

I was in religious life for a little over two years. I was a novice but I never made vows. A novice is someone who has entered a religious order and has been given a habit. He or she undergoes training and "religious formation" in preparation for taking vows. (There are novice monks as well as novice nuns.)

Some people have asked me why I call myself a former nun when I never made vows. According to "The Catholic Encyclopedia," if a monk or a nun has been accepted by a religious order (which I was) and has been given a religious habit (which I wore), then he or she is a monk or a nun in the broad sense of the term. [Note 1] So I refer to myself as a former nun.

WHAT I BELIEVE

Some people have asked me what I believe. In describing my beliefs, I am going to avoid technical terms. I am also going to avoid the issues about which different Protestant churches disagree, such as church government, form of worship, details about the Second Coming of Christ, and the relationship between predestination and free will.

I believe many things which are not in this summary. If I tried to go into them all, this would become too long and cumbersome. I am only going to mention some key areas. If I fail to mention something which you consider to be a foundational Christian doctrine, that does not necessarily mean that I don't believe it. It just means that I didn't mention it.

I believe in the three "solas" of the Protestant Reformation. We are saved by faith alone (not faith plus works). We are saved by faith in Jesus alone (not Jesus plus something else). Our rule of faith is the Bible alone (not the Bible plus tradition or other writings).

Saving faith is demonstrated by loving and obeying God, and by doing good works. These are the results of salvation, not the cause of it.

Christianity works for all Christians under all circumstances. There are some countries where Christians are severely persecuted. In these countries, Bibles are scarce, and Christians are not able to meet publicly. Some Christians have been put in prison for their faith, without Bibles, and often without being able to see fellow Christians. If Christians do not have Bibles to guide them and encourage them, then God has other ways of guiding them and strengthening them. God is not limited by our circumstances.

It is valuable to have Bibles and pastors and teachers and church meetings. If they are available, then we should benefit from them as much as possible. But if those things are not available, then God is powerful enough to enable us to live godly lives without them. Jesus promised us that the Holy Spirit would guide us into all truth (John 16:13) and teach us "all things" (John 14:26). God is able to keep us from falling. (Jude 1:24)

I believe in the authority and the accuracy of the Bible. I believe that it is the inspired Word of God. Jesus said that the Father showed Him what to say. (John 12:49) Surely our God is capable of doing the same thing for the men who wrote the books of the Bible.

Through the Bible, God shows us His nature and His character. He shows us what we should believe and how we should live. We need to test everything against Scripture. We also need to ask God to help us understand Scripture, to reveal Himself to us through the Bible, and to help us live according to His Word.

Ordinary people can understand the Bible. We don't have to rely on experts or church officials. The basic principles are simple enough for a child to understand. But the Bible is so rich that a brilliant scholar can spend a lifetime studying it and still not understand everything in it.

I believe that every Christian can have a personal relationship with God. We all have direct access to Him. We don't have to rely on professionals, church officials, and other special people.

I believe in the Atonement. Jesus died to save us from our sins. I believe in the Resurrection. Jesus literally rose from the dead and He now has a glorified body. He is in Heaven with the Father, and He is interceding for us. I believe in the Second Coming. Jesus will come back again.

I believe that at the end of all things, we will all stand before the judgment seat of Jesus Christ. (2 Corinthians 5:10; John 5:22; Romans 14:10) Talking about judgment is not popular these days, but it's in the Bible. When Judgment Day comes, we will want to be numbered with the Redeemed, the Saved, those whose sins have been forgiven. Even then, our works will be tested by fire. (1 Corinthians 3:11-15)

I believe in the Trinity. There is only one God. But there is the Father, the Son (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit. I believe in the Incarnation. Jesus Christ is truly God and truly man. Jesus was miraculously conceived by God. Mary was still a virgin when Jesus was born.

I don't understand how this works. But even the Apostle Paul had things that he didn't understand. Paul often spoke about mysteries that are beyond our understanding.

Even in the physical world, there are many things which we can't understand. According to the laws of aerodynamics, hummingbirds and bumble bees should not be able to fly. But they do. Scientists are studying them in hopes of gaining new understanding about aerodynamics, and developing new forms of aircraft. There is an animal called a platypus which is warm blooded, lays eggs, and nurses its babies. It looks and acts like a cross between a mammal and a lizard. Everything is made of atoms. Atoms have a nucleus of protons and neutrons, and there are electrons that go around the nucleus. The protons are positive. Neutrons are magnetically neutral. And electrons are negative. Have you ever tried to take two magnets and hold the positive sides of them together? They push each other away. Yet here we have these protons all together in the nucleus of the atom. What holds them together? Scientists don't know.

Life is full of mysteries. The Trinity and the Incarnation are two of them.

The Atonement is another mystery. I believe that Jesus did it. The Bible gives me some understanding of why we desperately needed to have Him do it for us. But I cannot understand how He could love us enough to do it. How could Jesus love us so much that He was willing to be tortured to death for us? Especially when He knew that most people would not respond to Him and would not appropriate the salvation that He paid such a high price for. How could God the Father love us so much that he endured the agony of watching his beloved Son be crucified? God's love is beyond my comprehension.

I believe that faith in Jesus Christ is the only way that we can be saved. In the Garden of Gesthemane, Jesus prayed to the Father, begging His Father to spare Him from having to drink the cup of suffering. (Matthew 26:39; 26:42) If there was some other way to save us, don't you think that the Father would have told Jesus? Don't you think that Jesus and the Father both intensely wanted to find some other way to save us? But there was no other way. Jesus had to go through the indescribable agony of mocking, shame, abandonment, physical torture, and death in order to save us. And He was willing to do it for us.

If there was some other way, then why did Jesus suffer for us? If good works, or being nice, or sacraments, or devotion to Mary, or good intentions, or wearing the brown scapular, or non-Christian religions, or anything else would do the job, then Jesus didn't need to suffer for us. Nobody in their right mind would go through that kind of suffering if it wasn't absolutely necessary. And no loving father would allow their son to go through it if it could be avoided. There is no other way. That's why Jesus died for us.

I have a Biblical world view. I believe in a literal heaven and hell. I believe that the devil is real. I believe that angels and demons are real. And I believe that God intervenes in the lives of individuals and of nations in response to prayer. I believe that the healings and miracles and supernatural events of the Bible are real. They really happened. God did it then, and if He wants to, He can do it now. (If you want to see an example, read "God's Smuggler" by Brother Andrew. God supernaturally protected Brother Andrew when he was smuggling Bibles into Communist countries. I have also read and heard accounts of God supernaturally protecting modern Christians who were being persecuted.)

I live in America. Many people here no longer believe in a Biblical world view. It is interesting that two things are happening at the same time. Many modern Christians are abandoning their belief in the supernatural things which are described in the Bible. At the same time, belief in occult supernatural things is growing rapidly and is becoming more and more mainstream. Books, movies, and TV shows are full of it. Some colleges have courses in goddess worship, witchcraft, spell casting, and other occult things. The American military has Wiccan "chaplains".

But God can use all things, even the occult. I know a man who saw the movie "The Exorcist". He also read the book. It persuaded him that the devil is real. He decided that if the devil is real, then God must also be real. So he started reading the Bible to find out about God. This man eventually became a strong Christian.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Evangelical Christian; Mainline Protestant
KEYWORDS: catholicscanttakeit; christian; excatholic; exnovice; exnun; formernovice; ooopsnotanun; phonytitle; poorlywrittenfiction
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 261-280281-300301-320 ... 441-446 next last
To: Quix
A relatively small percentage of the time, I'm inclined to use fierce satire anyway because it's the clearest, easiest, most effective way to highlight truth for the lurkers. I believe that it has been much more than a relatively small percentage of the time. Secondly, the truth of what? And in closing; Jesus did not say "Learn from me for I am fierce and satirical at heart".
281 posted on 03/30/2008 8:14:59 PM PDT by Running On Empty ((The three sorriest words:"It's too late"))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 209 | View Replies]

To: Running On Empty; Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD; Gamecock; wmfights; fortheDeclaration; DarthVader

Picking and choosing from my sentences is not any wiser than picking and choosing proof texts.

It would appear that the whole of what I said was quite missed.

Not surprisingly, actually.

It’s fascinating to me . . .

RC edifice reps rail at Prottys for

“”””\telling them what they are doing that they aren’t/””” etc.

But doing the same the other direction is somehow quite righteous.

Must have something to do with the rubber bible, rubber histories, rubber logic and rubber theology.


282 posted on 03/30/2008 8:21:05 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 281 | View Replies]

To: BlueDragon
Thanks for your reply.

My primary flag is her staying hidden, other aspects just make that all the more suspicious. As to:

Would you, if there were such inflammatory issues involved?

If I was going to make it a major part of my life, yes, I'd be public about it. I don't see what you're seeing here.

If preaching against Catholicism were that dangerous, half the Protestant Preachers would be undercover. We see it and hear this stuff all the time; in some degree it's inherent in a great deal of protestant theology and sermons - that's where protestant came from after all. I don't see the danger here, honestly. I think there's a longer history of frauds like this than there are of any harm done to public conversion and denouncing of Catholicism.

It stands out that this person has made a work out of this: books, websites, amazon commissions. It would only help their career - and their message - to add speaking engagements, interviews, media appearances, book signings, etc. That's what most, all in my experience, do who make such an effort to promulgate a message, whether with good or not so good intentions.

Yet this person has not responded to any attempt to corroborate their existence. Even so paranoid a recluse as Howard Hughes found a way.

I'm pretty confident on this one; I'd bet $100 they aren't who they claim.

Thanks again for your reply and the thread, it's an interesting mystery to me. If you ever find anything new.

best regards...

283 posted on 03/30/2008 8:22:07 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 184 | View Replies]

To: Gamecock; informavoracious; larose; RJR_fan; Prospero; Conservative Vermont Vet; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.

284 posted on 03/30/2008 8:25:50 PM PDT by narses (...the spirit of Trent is abroad once more.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BlueDragon

I forgot to add one other red flag to me.

In Catholicism, the Religious - priests, nuns, monks.. - are separated by one thing: Vows. It’s what makes them in the category Religious.

I don’t think an honorable person would call themselves an ex-Religious if they had never taken vows.

To find some looser definition in order to claim to have been a Religious is to me dissembling and provocative. Their motivation to do so in this case is quite obvious, but I believe it is not an honorable motivation and further damages their credibility.

Many thanks for your courteous though passionate discussion of this.

And now, I believe I have exhausted my quota of fulsomeness in reply.


285 posted on 03/30/2008 8:29:28 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 184 | View Replies]

To: Gamecock; All

I find it interesting all the hubub about her not being a real nun....(have you ever seen someone seriously wearing a habit one wouldn’t call a nun?) when Roman Catholic apologist Scott Hahn routinely, in print, by official Roman Catholic organizations is called an “ex-Protestant minister.” While he worked once at a church (even after he lied about what he really believed...) Scott Hahn was never ordained.


286 posted on 03/30/2008 9:16:30 PM PDT by AnalogReigns
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Mad Dawg
Didn't you SEE Elizabeth?

Not yet, it's on my Netflix list though.

I'm a contract rosary killer for Opus Dei..

I haven't seen The DiVinci Code yet either, but don't invite me to pray with you anytime soon..

{^_^}

287 posted on 03/30/2008 9:57:55 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 263 | View Replies]

To: Dr. Eckleburg; betty boop
Thank you so very much for sharing your insights and especially those beautiful Scriptures!

And whereas I agree with you strongly about the power of God and the words of God (Matthew 22:29) - that the words of God are spirit and life (John 6:63) and are Spiritually discerned (I Corinthians 2:14) - I am also reminded in the spirit that sanctification is a walk and that God uses "acting out" to teach Spiritual Truth as He did in the washing of the apostle's feet (emphasis mine:)

Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.

And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's [son], to betray him; Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God; He riseth from supper, and laid aside his garments; and took a towel, and girded himself.

After that he poureth water into a bason, and began to wash the disciples' feet, and to wipe [them] with the towel wherewith he was girded.

Then cometh he to Simon Peter: and Peter saith unto him, Lord, dost thou wash my feet? Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter. Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me.

Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also [my] hands and [my] head.

Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash [his] feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all. For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean.

So after he had washed their feet, and had taken his garments, and was set down again, he said unto them, Know ye what I have done to you?

Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for [so] I am. If I then, [your] Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet. For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you. - John 13:1-15

The point of the exercise is obviously not merely having clean feet but rather that we should help one another to remove the filth that clings to us because we are still walking in this world.

Likewise the observance of the Lord's Supper is not cannibalistic eating of His flesh and drinking His blood or sacrificing Him again as if the Cross were insufficient in any way. It is an "acting out" of the Spiritual Truth summed up here:

He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever. These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.

Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard [this], said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?

When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? [What] and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life. - John 6:56-63

Therefore, I am not alarmed by such rituals as long as they are rooted in the words of God and are not merely doctrines and traditions of men which might risk injury to one of His own.

To God be the glory!

288 posted on 03/30/2008 11:05:15 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 246 | View Replies]

To: sandyeggo
Thank you so very much for sharing your insights and for your encouragements!

The key point to remember is that if YOU don't believe He is present in Holy Communion, how would you receive Him?

That is very close to my point, i.e. the natural man cannot know (much less a written doctrine) what another is thinking (emphasis mine:)

Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. - I Corinthians 2:6-16

God knows His own - and we know Him.

To God be the glory!

289 posted on 03/30/2008 11:26:58 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 247 | View Replies]

To: AnalogReigns
Can you provide some documentation on his non ordination. All of the Google sites that I looked at seem to confirm that he was ordained as a Presbyterian minister in 1982. I also know he taught theology at one of their seminaries. after he got his PhD.
290 posted on 03/30/2008 11:29:44 PM PDT by saradippity
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 286 | View Replies]

To: AnalogReigns
Very good point.

Interesting how some groups claim to hold so strictly to certain teachings, but then find all sorts of technicalities top dodge the same.

Let's just consider divorce v. annulments.

291 posted on 03/31/2008 2:59:20 AM PDT by Gamecock (Viva La Reformacion!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 286 | View Replies]

To: armydoc
Well, in general I find that Wiki just makes me do more homework.

Note the negative formulation. I'd suggest that the way to 'get' it is, "There is nothing WRONG with this, but that doesn't mean there's anything RIGHT with it, either." And often in recent years an explanation more or less to that effect is appended to the imprimatur.

Further, while it could be free from error in matters of doctrine and morals, that certainly doesn't mean it's free from error in matters of fact, or even of "vibe".

I guess debating whether or not someone who may or may not have existed was a nun makes me want to get out my knotted cord and count the angels on a nearby pin.

292 posted on 03/31/2008 4:04:25 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 276 | View Replies]

To: AnalogReigns
What are the ways one becomes a "minister" in the various groups of Protestants. When one is ordained, who does the ordaining and what makes it "official"?

Serious question.

As to whether or not a person who may or may not exist was a sho' 'nuff nun: it may be relevant that the Dominicans say that my having made novice vows (the first of three one-year vows) in the Lay Fraternities of St. Dominic (what used to be called the third order before people got all sensitive about hierarchies and such) I can put "O.P." after my name and call myself a Dominican.

As my kid would say: Big Whoop.

I mean, I love the Dominican family and charism and all that, but I'm not greatly impressed by my own personal Dominicanitude, as saying anything about me, myself. Being a Yankees fan (like Hillary, for example -- gag, hack, koff, koff) does not make one a good ball player. Being a novice Dominican does not suggest anything about my virtue, sanctity, or smarts, except maybe aspiration - maybe.

And the character about which this whole tale is told seems to have signed up not to serve God but to get His attention and love. No wonder "she" quit. What a messed up reason for becoming a "religious"! "She" led with her need rather than with gratitude, given by God, for the grace which only God can give, and which cannot, under any circumstances, be earned.

If I understand the Gospel at all, it's that God gives us the bootstraps and then lifts us up by them. "She" tried with graceless effort to lift herself up by her graceless bootstraps, and then blames the Church for the way that didn't work out. It's just silly, but it will play (and evidently does play) to those who think that we RCs are all about teeth-gritting and earning what cannot be earned.

She tried to pay for what is (a) beyond price and (b) given freely. That there is unregenerate pride and, left to itself, leads to sorrow and disaster.

293 posted on 03/31/2008 4:35:22 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 286 | View Replies]

To: D-fendr
Just don't let me get behind you, or else tuck your chin in. An iron collar would be wise ....

Elizabeth is pretty good cinematography, IMHO. But lousy paranoid Ninja Terrorist Jesuit history. And Galadriel makes a pretty good queen.

294 posted on 03/31/2008 4:37:55 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 287 | View Replies]

To: Gamecock
Let's just consider divorce v. annulments.

If you were to start the thread, I'd try to contribute.

295 posted on 03/31/2008 4:39:02 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 291 | View Replies]

To: Mad Dawg
I don't want to kill all Unitarians, personally. Just the ones that burned a question mark on my lawn.

I don't blame you. They were obviously from the RU (Radical Unitarian) wing and deserve to be put down.

The true Unitarian wouldn't do that because it would pollute the atmosphere.

296 posted on 03/31/2008 9:51:59 AM PDT by OLD REGGIE (I am most likely a Biblical Unitarian? Let me be perfectly clear. I know nothing.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 268 | View Replies]

To: Alamo-Girl
I agree that all we have to determine others by is the fruit.

Only God knows the heart.

297 posted on 03/31/2008 9:55:16 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 288 | View Replies]

To: Running On Empty; Quix
Secondly, the truth of what? And in closing; Jesus did not say "Learn from me for I am fierce and satirical at heart".

No, but he did speak in parables. That was the equivalent of satire at the time. :)
298 posted on 03/31/2008 9:58:43 AM PDT by OLD REGGIE (I am most likely a Biblical Unitarian? Let me be perfectly clear. I know nothing.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 281 | View Replies]

To: Dr. Eckleburg
Same as it ever was. Not one word about what she's writing; only that she fled the RCC.

The fact that she and her supporters on this thread are portraying her as a nun when she wasn't kinda makes that problematic. When the basis of an argument is a falsehood, then the discussion ends at that point. Then - when people keep repeating the same falsehoods even when they know the truth, they acquire a reputation that is hard to get rid of. AMEN!

299 posted on 03/31/2008 10:07:18 AM PDT by Hacksaw (I support the tiger.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: OLD REGGIE

Plenty of truth to that.

However, Christ was fiercely biting to the MAGICSTERICAL of the time . . .

white washed tombs

vipers

brood of vipers.

put burdens on serfs shoulders they wouldn’t bear themselves

their father, satan, . . .

Should refresh my memory of such . . . but there’s plenty examples.

Scripture as a whole is replete with satire. IIRC, Christ Himself used it on occasion—plain biting satire.


300 posted on 03/31/2008 10:12:29 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 298 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 261-280281-300301-320 ... 441-446 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson