Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

A Testimony to God's Grace [ex-nun's true story]
Catholic concerns ^ | October 2003 | Mary Ann Collins (A Former Catholic Nun)

Posted on 03/27/2008 10:33:22 AM PDT by Gamecock

I joined the Roman Catholic Church because I was looking for God. I entered the convent because I wanted to be close to God and to serve Him with radical devotion. But it wasn't until after I left Catholicism that I found the kind of relationship with God that I had been looking for all along. You can read about it in my poems.

My pastor and my father have both advised me not to give out personal information. This biography is an attempt to share my heart and my life within the framework of their advice.

I started out as a "liberal" intellectual who was prejudiced against Christianity. I had been taught to believe that Christians were gullible people who were either stupid or uneducated. I was basically an agnostic who didn't know or care whether God existed. For me, the idea of God was irrelevant. I looked to science, psychology, and politics to save mankind from its problems.

During my senior year in high school, I fell in love with a young man who was a devout Catholic. That was my first encounter with someone who strongly believed in God. I may have met Christians before that, but they didn't make their Christian beliefs known to me.

This young man prayed. He loved God. He was a man of principle and integrity. His life was guided by his religious beliefs. He had hope. He had a kind of compassion and respect for people that I had not seen before. There was something different about him. I didn't know what it was, but whatever it was, I wanted it. I figured that it had something to do with his religion, so I started taking instruction in Catholicism. The young man moved away and I didn't see him again, but I continued studying Catholicism.

During my first year of college I majored in biology. I also studied French and Latin. I went to a local priest every week for instruction. Under his direction, I studied many books including the "Baltimore Catechism" and biographies of well known modern Catholics. This was in the days of the Latin Mass, before there was a formal catechumen program. When I returned home for the summer, I found another priest to continue my instruction.

I was unable to return to college the following year. I found another priest to instruct me. For several years I continued to study with that priest, while working to earn money for college. The priest gave me more books to study including a series of booklets on Scripture. (There was a booklet for each book of the Bible. On each page, the top half of the page contained Scripture and the bottom half contained a Catholic commentary about those portions of Scripture.)

My job was close to a Catholic Church, and I went to Mass during lunch hour. I prayed for God to give me faith. I was praying even though I wasn't sure that God existed. My very first prayer was, "God, if You're out there, show me." I didn't take communion because I wasn't a Catholic. I only said as much of the Apostles Creed as I actually believed. It was a long time before I could even say the opening phrase, "I believe in God".

After several years I was baptized a Roman Catholic. Soon afterwards, my brother also became a Catholic. His instruction was through group classes. I attended those classes with him. I was hungry to learn anything that I could about God.

I went to a Catholic college and majored in Religious Education. My classes on Scripture taught a lot of modern "higher criticism," and some of my Religious Education teachers taught things that seemed to be contrary to the official teachings of the Catholic Church. I found a conservative priest and I checked teachings out with him to see if they were the official teaching of the Catholic Church. Because I no longer trusted the teachings of the Religious Education department, I changed majors.

When I entered the convent, I was careful to choose a conservative one which followed the official teachings of the Catholic Church. My training for religious life included studying the documents of the Second Vatican Counsel, other books relating to Catholic doctrine, and biographies of well known saints.

I spent over two years as a postulant and a novice. This was a time of testing for the leaders of the convent, and for me, to decide whether or not I should make vows. My mother superior had some questions about my calling, and she and the leadership decided that I should not remain in the convent. I left the convent on good terms and have occasionally been in contact with the sisters since then.

Our mother superior was very careful about which priests she allowed to say Mass at our convent. We had priests who were loyal to God and to the Catholic Church. They believed the Bible. They were faithful men.

When I left the convent and went to live with my parents, I couldn't find priests like that. The local priests seemed to have little faith and little loyalty, either to God or to the Catholic Church. I remember one Mass where the homily (a short sermon) was so distressing that I left in tears. I stayed outside, weeping. But then I went back in, in order to take communion. I tried every Catholic church in town, but I couldn't find a good priest.

I vividly remember a priest who spoke about Luke 7:38-50. This was the time when Jesus ate in the home of a Pharisee and a woman came and wept and washed Jesus' feet with her tears, and dried them with her hair, and anointed them with ointment. The Pharisee was critical. Jesus told him that he had not washed Jesus' feet, but the woman did. He had not greeted Jesus with a kiss, but the woman kissed his feet. The Catholic priest said that this event must not have really happened, because it would be rude for a guest to say something like that to his host, and Jesus would never have been rude. This illustrates an attitude towards Scripture which I encountered with a number of priests. It was very distressing.

Meanwhile, my parents had become Christians. They had joined a little Methodist church where the pastor believed the Bible and loved the people. Because the local Catholic churches were distressing, I started doing the splits. I went to early morning Mass (out of duty) and then I attended the Methodist church. When my parents joined another Scripturally based Protestant church, I followed them there, while still attending early morning Mass on Sundays. I did the splits for years.

I made myself go to Mass out of duty. But I went to my parents' church eagerly. I learned exciting things about the Bible there. I sang songs that stirred my soul. I took classes that made me more and more hungry for Scripture. I got to know people who were enthusiastic about God. I learned that Biblical principles really work, and that they make a significant practical difference in real life situations.

As I learned more about the Bible, I began to realize that some Catholic teachings are contrary to Scripture. This was disturbing, but I kind of pushed those contradictions to the back of my mind and didn't deal with them. They made me uneasy, but I wasn't emotionally able to handle the idea that there might be something wrong with the Catholic Church.

My brother was a devout Catholic. He assisted the priests at Mass for many years. He lived several hours' drive away from us. We had a tradition that on Easter and Christmas, he would come visit and we would go to Midnight Mass together.

One Christmas, at Midnight Mass, the priest taught that the Christmas story as presented in the Bible is basically a pious fairy tale to make people feel good, but it has nothing to do with reality. My brother got so angry that he wanted to jump up and shout, "Are we here to celebrate it or to debate it?"

The next day, we went to church with our parents. The pastor there told us that Daniel had been in charge of the "wise men" of Babylon (magi). Therefore, they knew about Baalam's prophecy that the King of the Jews would be heralded by a star. Their religion included watching the stars for signs. So when they saw the special star, they realized that it signaled the coming of this special King of the Jews. Also, one of their functions was to decide who the valid king was if there was a controversy about it. So when they came to confirm that Jesus was truly the King of the Jews, they were fulfilling their official function.

Needless to say, the contrast was striking. And troubling. I did a lot of praying after that. By the following Easter, I had left the Catholic Church and joined my parents' church.

I didn't know what to tell my brother and his wife, because they were coming to visit at Easter, and I did not want to go to Midnight Mass with them. We had a long, awkward telephone conversation. Then I finally told them. They started laughing. They had also left the Catholic Church, and were in the process of visiting different churches, trying to find a church home.

There was a prayer that had a major impact on my life, but I don't remember the exact words. When I prayed it, I was crying and I didn't know why. And afterwards, things were different, but it's hard to put into words. The prayer was something like this:

"Jesus, I want to know You. Please reveal Yourself to me and make the Bible come alive for me. I want to be clean and start over again. Please forgive my sins. Wash them away and set me free. I want to live right. Please change my heart. Help me love what You love, and turn away from things that displease You. You know what's best for me. I want to do things Your way. Please be the Lord of my life. Teach me to love the way You love. Help me be faithful to You. Thank You for loving me and for hearing this prayer. Thank You for being my Lord and my Savior."

Since then I have been struggling with issues related to Catholicism. The papers that I have written have emerged from that struggle.

In addition to being a former nun, I am also a widow. My husband and I were very close, and his death introduced me to a level of emotional pain that I didn't know was possible. The articles which I have written about finding God's comfort during times of adversity were born out of my own experience.

My testimony is not unusual. A number of former Catholics have written me sharing how they found a living, personal relationship with God when they became born-again, Bible-believing, Protestants.

Some ex-Catholics read my testimony and wrote to me, wanting to be sure that Jesus Christ is my Lord and my Savior. (He is.) An ex-nun befriended me. Two former priests gave me wise counsel. Other ex-Catholic friends have shared their hearts, their wisdom, and valuable information. I am deeply grateful for these people. May the Lord bless them for their kindness.

POEM

Your Word brings life to save my soul. Your Truth brings light to make me whole.

Your perfect love casts out my fears, Comforts me, and dries my tears.

I'm in the shadow of Your wings Where you teach my heart to sing.

Safe and secure from all alarm, Your faithful love keeps me from harm.

I will bless You all my days. You fill my heart with songs of praise.

NUNS AND NOVICES

I was in religious life for a little over two years. I was a novice but I never made vows. A novice is someone who has entered a religious order and has been given a habit. He or she undergoes training and "religious formation" in preparation for taking vows. (There are novice monks as well as novice nuns.)

Some people have asked me why I call myself a former nun when I never made vows. According to "The Catholic Encyclopedia," if a monk or a nun has been accepted by a religious order (which I was) and has been given a religious habit (which I wore), then he or she is a monk or a nun in the broad sense of the term. [Note 1] So I refer to myself as a former nun.

WHAT I BELIEVE

Some people have asked me what I believe. In describing my beliefs, I am going to avoid technical terms. I am also going to avoid the issues about which different Protestant churches disagree, such as church government, form of worship, details about the Second Coming of Christ, and the relationship between predestination and free will.

I believe many things which are not in this summary. If I tried to go into them all, this would become too long and cumbersome. I am only going to mention some key areas. If I fail to mention something which you consider to be a foundational Christian doctrine, that does not necessarily mean that I don't believe it. It just means that I didn't mention it.

I believe in the three "solas" of the Protestant Reformation. We are saved by faith alone (not faith plus works). We are saved by faith in Jesus alone (not Jesus plus something else). Our rule of faith is the Bible alone (not the Bible plus tradition or other writings).

Saving faith is demonstrated by loving and obeying God, and by doing good works. These are the results of salvation, not the cause of it.

Christianity works for all Christians under all circumstances. There are some countries where Christians are severely persecuted. In these countries, Bibles are scarce, and Christians are not able to meet publicly. Some Christians have been put in prison for their faith, without Bibles, and often without being able to see fellow Christians. If Christians do not have Bibles to guide them and encourage them, then God has other ways of guiding them and strengthening them. God is not limited by our circumstances.

It is valuable to have Bibles and pastors and teachers and church meetings. If they are available, then we should benefit from them as much as possible. But if those things are not available, then God is powerful enough to enable us to live godly lives without them. Jesus promised us that the Holy Spirit would guide us into all truth (John 16:13) and teach us "all things" (John 14:26). God is able to keep us from falling. (Jude 1:24)

I believe in the authority and the accuracy of the Bible. I believe that it is the inspired Word of God. Jesus said that the Father showed Him what to say. (John 12:49) Surely our God is capable of doing the same thing for the men who wrote the books of the Bible.

Through the Bible, God shows us His nature and His character. He shows us what we should believe and how we should live. We need to test everything against Scripture. We also need to ask God to help us understand Scripture, to reveal Himself to us through the Bible, and to help us live according to His Word.

Ordinary people can understand the Bible. We don't have to rely on experts or church officials. The basic principles are simple enough for a child to understand. But the Bible is so rich that a brilliant scholar can spend a lifetime studying it and still not understand everything in it.

I believe that every Christian can have a personal relationship with God. We all have direct access to Him. We don't have to rely on professionals, church officials, and other special people.

I believe in the Atonement. Jesus died to save us from our sins. I believe in the Resurrection. Jesus literally rose from the dead and He now has a glorified body. He is in Heaven with the Father, and He is interceding for us. I believe in the Second Coming. Jesus will come back again.

I believe that at the end of all things, we will all stand before the judgment seat of Jesus Christ. (2 Corinthians 5:10; John 5:22; Romans 14:10) Talking about judgment is not popular these days, but it's in the Bible. When Judgment Day comes, we will want to be numbered with the Redeemed, the Saved, those whose sins have been forgiven. Even then, our works will be tested by fire. (1 Corinthians 3:11-15)

I believe in the Trinity. There is only one God. But there is the Father, the Son (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit. I believe in the Incarnation. Jesus Christ is truly God and truly man. Jesus was miraculously conceived by God. Mary was still a virgin when Jesus was born.

I don't understand how this works. But even the Apostle Paul had things that he didn't understand. Paul often spoke about mysteries that are beyond our understanding.

Even in the physical world, there are many things which we can't understand. According to the laws of aerodynamics, hummingbirds and bumble bees should not be able to fly. But they do. Scientists are studying them in hopes of gaining new understanding about aerodynamics, and developing new forms of aircraft. There is an animal called a platypus which is warm blooded, lays eggs, and nurses its babies. It looks and acts like a cross between a mammal and a lizard. Everything is made of atoms. Atoms have a nucleus of protons and neutrons, and there are electrons that go around the nucleus. The protons are positive. Neutrons are magnetically neutral. And electrons are negative. Have you ever tried to take two magnets and hold the positive sides of them together? They push each other away. Yet here we have these protons all together in the nucleus of the atom. What holds them together? Scientists don't know.

Life is full of mysteries. The Trinity and the Incarnation are two of them.

The Atonement is another mystery. I believe that Jesus did it. The Bible gives me some understanding of why we desperately needed to have Him do it for us. But I cannot understand how He could love us enough to do it. How could Jesus love us so much that He was willing to be tortured to death for us? Especially when He knew that most people would not respond to Him and would not appropriate the salvation that He paid such a high price for. How could God the Father love us so much that he endured the agony of watching his beloved Son be crucified? God's love is beyond my comprehension.

I believe that faith in Jesus Christ is the only way that we can be saved. In the Garden of Gesthemane, Jesus prayed to the Father, begging His Father to spare Him from having to drink the cup of suffering. (Matthew 26:39; 26:42) If there was some other way to save us, don't you think that the Father would have told Jesus? Don't you think that Jesus and the Father both intensely wanted to find some other way to save us? But there was no other way. Jesus had to go through the indescribable agony of mocking, shame, abandonment, physical torture, and death in order to save us. And He was willing to do it for us.

If there was some other way, then why did Jesus suffer for us? If good works, or being nice, or sacraments, or devotion to Mary, or good intentions, or wearing the brown scapular, or non-Christian religions, or anything else would do the job, then Jesus didn't need to suffer for us. Nobody in their right mind would go through that kind of suffering if it wasn't absolutely necessary. And no loving father would allow their son to go through it if it could be avoided. There is no other way. That's why Jesus died for us.

I have a Biblical world view. I believe in a literal heaven and hell. I believe that the devil is real. I believe that angels and demons are real. And I believe that God intervenes in the lives of individuals and of nations in response to prayer. I believe that the healings and miracles and supernatural events of the Bible are real. They really happened. God did it then, and if He wants to, He can do it now. (If you want to see an example, read "God's Smuggler" by Brother Andrew. God supernaturally protected Brother Andrew when he was smuggling Bibles into Communist countries. I have also read and heard accounts of God supernaturally protecting modern Christians who were being persecuted.)

I live in America. Many people here no longer believe in a Biblical world view. It is interesting that two things are happening at the same time. Many modern Christians are abandoning their belief in the supernatural things which are described in the Bible. At the same time, belief in occult supernatural things is growing rapidly and is becoming more and more mainstream. Books, movies, and TV shows are full of it. Some colleges have courses in goddess worship, witchcraft, spell casting, and other occult things. The American military has Wiccan "chaplains".

But God can use all things, even the occult. I know a man who saw the movie "The Exorcist". He also read the book. It persuaded him that the devil is real. He decided that if the devil is real, then God must also be real. So he started reading the Bible to find out about God. This man eventually became a strong Christian.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Evangelical Christian; Mainline Protestant
KEYWORDS: catholicscanttakeit; christian; excatholic; exnovice; exnun; formernovice; ooopsnotanun; phonytitle; poorlywrittenfiction
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 221-240241-260261-280 ... 441-446 next last
To: Alamo-Girl
If I understand you correctly, you are not complaining about not being able to partake of the Eucharist in the RCC service; you are questioning the truth of its actual stated essence and purpose.

Which as you've shown us, is carefully explained by Christ...

"And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, [it] cannot defile him; Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?

Here Christ is saying anything exterior to Himself is a non-essential, and is ultimately ineffectual and therefore purged.

What is important is He who gives the new heart and what comes from this new heart.

241 posted on 03/30/2008 12:13:58 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 237 | View Replies]

To: Mad Dawg
LOLOL! I find your posts to be such delightful reads, dear brother in Christ! You have a way with words.

Thank you for sharing your insights - especially about the sprinkling!

But truly, I did not accuse anyone I knew of idolatry. Quite the contrary.

The point I raised - which is explained by Christ in Mark 7:5-23 quoted in post 237 - is that defilement comes from within the heart of the man. If a person kneeling and kissing the wood believed in his heart that he was worshipping it, then it is an abomination to him.

As to the Eucharist, I find the exclusiveness doctrine to be quite fascinating - and revealing. I am not offended by it, but others may be. The Catholic Church should have paid closer attention to this:

Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as [he did] unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? - Acts 11:17

To God be the glory!

242 posted on 03/30/2008 12:16:15 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 238 | View Replies]

To: betty boop
It seems to me that the Catholic tradition pays more attention to the complementarity and reconciliation of the physical and spiritual dimensions of human life than the Reformed Church does, which seems to have an almost exclusive concern with the spiritual. That is probably why one typically finds in Catholic churches amazing appeals to sensory experience, through such media as art and architecture, music, the use of incense, the physical aspects of ritual, and so forth. All of these are ultimately appeals to spirit, mediated by bodily experience, intended to unify the Body of Christ and join us to Him through commonly-shared experiences.

How beautifully said, dearest sister in Christ!

I look forward to the day when all of our brothers and sisters in Christ rejoice in the Spirit with the mind of Christ (I Cor 2) and quit "sweating the details."

To God be the glory!

243 posted on 03/30/2008 12:20:23 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 240 | View Replies]

To: stfassisi; Dr. Eckleburg
Blessed Saint Aquinas explains this well

More from "Blessed Saint Aquinas":

Aquin.: SMT SS Q[11] A[3] Body Para. 1/2

I answer that, With regard to heretics two points must be observed: one, on their own side; the other, on the side of the Church. On their own side there is the sin, whereby they deserve not only to be separated from the Church by excommunication, but also to be severed from the world by death. For it is a much graver matter to corrupt the faith which quickens the soul, than to forge money, which supports temporal life. Wherefore if forgers of money and other evil-doers are forthwith condemned to death by the secular authority, much more reason is there for heretics, as soon as they are convicted of heresy, to be not only excommunicated but even put to death.


Aquin.: SMT SS Q[11] A[3] Body Para. 2/2

On the part of the Church, however, there is mercy which looks to the conversion of the wanderer, wherefore she condemns not at once, but "after the first and second admonition," as the Apostle directs: after that, if he is yet stubborn, the Church no longer hoping for his conversion, looks to the salvation of others, by excommunicating him and separating him from the Church, and furthermore delivers him to the secular tribunal to be exterminated thereby from the world by death. For Jerome commenting on Gal. 5:9, "A little leaven," says: "Cut off the decayed flesh, expel the mangy sheep from the fold, lest the whole house, the whole paste, the whole body, the whole flock, burn, perish, rot, die. Arius was but one spark in Alexandria, but as that spark was not at once put out, the whole earth was laid waste by its flame."

244 posted on 03/30/2008 12:24:42 PM PDT by OLD REGGIE (I am most likely a Biblical Unitarian? Let me be perfectly clear. I know nothing.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 233 | View Replies]

To: Dr. Eckleburg
Precisely so, dear sister in Christ!

The exclusion has no effect whatsoever on the body of Christ of Whom we are all members.

For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. – Colossians 3:3

The exclusion only reflects on the doctrine.

To God be the glory!

245 posted on 03/30/2008 12:27:47 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 241 | View Replies]

To: betty boop; Alamo-Girl
It seems to me that the Catholic tradition pays more attention to the complementarity and reconciliation of the physical and spiritual dimensions of human life than the Reformed Church does, which seems to have an almost exclusive concern with the spiritual. That is probably why one typically finds in Catholic churches amazing appeals to sensory experience, through such media as art and architecture, music, the use of incense, the physical aspects of ritual, and so forth. All of these are ultimately appeals to spirit, mediated by bodily experience, intended to unify the Body of Christ and join us to Him through commonly-shared experiences.

But Scripture seems to warn us of what we perceive through the senses. (And this may very well be because what we perceive through the senses always ends up pointing back to us.)

Instead Scripture encourages us to rely on our quickened hearts and our renewed minds which keep the focus on God alone. That's why God regenerates our consciences so that we may know the truth, not just feel the truth.

The method God has chosen to reveal Himself to us is amazing. Since Scripture is written in black and white and enters our mind first in words and concepts, everything that follows works together for God's purpose, according to the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

And thus the primacy of God's word is revealed and strengthened and affirmed by our minds, in the daylight, through the freedom Christ won for us on the cross. "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

"And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." -- Romans 12:2


"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost" -- Titus 3:5


"And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life." -- 1 John 5:20


"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." -- John 6:63


246 posted on 03/30/2008 12:41:54 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 240 | View Replies]

Comment #247 Removed by Moderator

To: Gamecock
Interesting article. GOD had plans for her and still does. It is The Holy Spirit which leads us and guides us. Obviously early in her life she needed the structuring of the RCC. This during her early growth was where the LORD seemed to want her to be. The same Holy Spirit who led her there also led her elsewhere to continue her growth. The RCC is a fine church and if a person is called to it they should remain within it until the Spirit says otherwise the same with those called to Protestant denominations as well which serve the LORD well and preach the Gospel.

The churches although with differing theological doctrines serve the same LORD and Savior. It is up to the Holy Spirit to guide us individually into the path which makes us of the most use to GOD’s Divine will. If GOD called her to the RCC and she went she was right and obeying His calling. If led by The Holy Spirit after her obvious prayer to go elsewhere she was just as right as well to do so. If more churches worried about doing their work instead of converting fellow Chirstians to their sect there would be far less time for bickering in ALL the churches :>}

248 posted on 03/30/2008 12:56:24 PM PDT by cva66snipe (Proud Partisan Constitution Supporting Conservative to which I make no apologies for nor back down)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sandyeggo; Alamo-Girl
I can assure you that there is no danger of anyone in the congregation confusing worship of the wood, or it's being alive, as you put it.

The problem, of course, is that this is what Catholics tell us about their "veneration" of Mary and their belief that she is a "co-redeemer" and a "dispensatrix of all graces." Catholics still insist this kind of "veneration" is permissible and encouraged in Scripture when it is clearly, resoundingly prohibited.

Historically, kissing the cross goes back to the 4th. century, and in England it was called "creeping to the cross", one many practices of piety which was outlawed in 1540-something by the crown.

Where in the Bible are we instructed to kiss the cross?

On the contrary, Scripture tells us to "kiss the Son."

"Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him." -- Psalm 2:12

249 posted on 03/30/2008 12:59:08 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 247 | View Replies]

Comment #250 Removed by Moderator

To: Alamo-Girl
Just to be clear, I didn't think you, yourself, personally were saying that we were idolatrous and, not only that but, I thank you for your perceptiveness. In our big old barn of a Church we had approximately 90 gazillion people at the Good Friday service so I was asked to help "direct traffic" up to the crucifix at veneration time. It was all I could do not to weep at the beauty of some of the devotion I saw. It was in the faces of some of the people. (If I weren't such an extremely manly man, I would have sobbed. I kind of failed as traffic director. Sniffling doesn't do much for the air of authority.)

I will wrassle some more with closed communion. We do think it's kind of like sex before marriage, sort of, in a way, more or less because it's not just, as it were, vertical - believer and Jesus, but horizontal - believer and the rest of us. But let me think about it some.

Looky here: I know an ex-Lutheran - who is now who knows what, who told me with some kind of pride that his dad swung an altar candle-stick into the belly of a priest who told him (NOT during a service, before it) that the Catholic Church practices closed communion. There certainly is an appearance here of, "You are superstitious scoundrels for saying what you say about the Eucharist AND you deserve a beating for not letting me share in this worthless thing." I think that needs examining.

251 posted on 03/30/2008 1:12:33 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 242 | View Replies]

To: OLD REGGIE

Dear Friend,I suggest to read the following to understand Aquinas

http://www.aquinasonline.com/Topics/tolernce.html


252 posted on 03/30/2008 1:13:22 PM PDT by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 244 | View Replies]

To: Alamo-Girl
P.S. Thanks for the type-size. A balm to my eyeballs! My corneas (corneae?) thank you.

P.P.S. My mom and I had an up-and-dpown relationship, but we could almost always make each other laugh and loved to do so. Her mom was on the music-hall stage of England, which was ALL corny jokes, like vaudeville, I guess.

I remember with real pleasure the first time I made both my parents laugh, I must have been about 6, with some joke I told. Words and laughter mean a lot to me.

253 posted on 03/30/2008 1:17:10 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 242 | View Replies]

Comment #254 Removed by Moderator

To: Alamo-Girl
I look forward to the day when all of our brothers and sisters in Christ rejoice in the Spirit with the mind of Christ (I Cor 2) and quit "sweating the details."

Oh, so do I, my dearest sister in Christ! So do I, praise God!

Thank you ever so much for writing!

255 posted on 03/30/2008 1:21:48 PM PDT by betty boop (This country was founded on religious principles. Without God, there is no America. -- Ben Stein)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 243 | View Replies]

To: OLD REGGIE
Jefferson had slaves and thought everyone should be a Unitarian.

Relevant?

I don't think so.

256 posted on 03/30/2008 1:23:19 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 244 | View Replies]

To: sandyeggo
I'd guess it was outlawed a little later than 1540 cause Henry VIII was very high Church, but poor, young and sickly Edward (VI? - I always get mixed up about him) was king when the C of E went all Calvinist. If you compare the first (still very papistical) and second prayer books you can see how strong the influence was. It's very interesting (to me, anyway.)

And High Church Pepsicolians still call it "creeping to the cross", or they did as late as 1994, which was when I quit paying too much attention.

My CAD number when I was a deppidy was 1549 - which was the year of the first prayer book of Edward VIth. I lent my text to someone and never got it back. Darn!

257 posted on 03/30/2008 2:14:55 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 247 | View Replies]

To: stfassisi
“”There was a prayer that had a major impact on my life, but I don't remember the exact words””

I'll never forget ol', uh, ol', ... ol' whatshername.

Pour me another, wouldja?

258 posted on 03/30/2008 2:28:35 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 65 | View Replies]

To: trisham
How very odd.

Curioser and curioser ...

259 posted on 03/30/2008 2:28:47 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: stfassisi
Dear Friend,I suggest to read the following to understand Aquinas

http://www.aquinasonline.com/Topics/tolernce.html


OK I've read it. It's an apolegetics "reasoning" meant to excuse or "explain" the Aquinas view towards the killing of "heretics".

What did you expect me to understand?

260 posted on 03/30/2008 2:28:49 PM PDT by OLD REGGIE (I am most likely a Biblical Unitarian? Let me be perfectly clear. I know nothing.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 252 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 221-240241-260261-280 ... 441-446 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson