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Martin Luther: Hitler's Spiritual Ancestor
Catholic Apologetics ^ | Peter F. Wiener

Posted on 03/15/2008 10:17:55 AM PDT by big'ol_freeper

More than once during these talks I referred to Luther and what always occurred to me as his destructive influence. I pointed out that even in such an admirable book as Rohan Butler's “The Roots of National Socialism” the spiritual origins of Nazism and Luther's influence had not been given the necessary importance. Then I was asked if I would be prepared to elaborate to them—about a dozen of the very senior boys, that is—my own views on Luther and Lutheranism. I agreed—with the proviso that they would be my own views and nothing else. Admittedly, I had read more on Luther and about Luther than on most other subjects. But I wanted to make it quite clear that I would not speak to them with the voice of a great authority, but would merely give them my own interpretation. I told them, moreover, that I should try to prove how dangerous it is to accept legends; and that the picture I had of Luther and his influence was thoroughly contradictory of the customary Luther of the legend.

(Excerpt) Read more at catholicapologetics.info ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Mainline Protestant; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholicism; christians; hitler; holocaust; israel; jews; judaism; luther; lutheran; martinluther; nazi; nazism; protestantism
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To: Marysecretary

If you actually have a case to make why don’t you make it?

This is the second time I have asked this. Do you have a case to make or not?


841 posted on 03/17/2008 10:07:54 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: blue-duncan

Then Rome must have felt it chose the right man for the job.


842 posted on 03/17/2008 10:11:24 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Alamo-Girl

Amen. God keep us all from blinking. Or worse, closing our eyes altogether.


843 posted on 03/17/2008 10:12:26 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

you wrote:

“lol. You offered the glowing review of La Popessa; I didn’t. And now you’re asking my opinion of that glowing review?”

No. I did not offer a review. I posted what someone else wrote up as a review. You DISPUTE what that reviewer claims as appears in numerous posts in this thread. Does the book, La Popessa, actually claim that Pius XII saved numerous Jewish lives or not? You say you have the book. Why not answer that simple question? Is that too hard for you?

“Apparently you want us to believe the good reviews, and also to believe the bad reviews. Strange.”

I am asking you to look up something in the book YOU CLAIM TO HAVE. Why is that strange when you were offering to send me a snapshot of yourself with the book? Do you have the book or not? Can you actually open it and read it or not?

“No, I don’t think La Popessa vindicates Pacelli from his sins of omission as well as his sins of commission. Far from it. I think the book stands in testimony to one pretty strange couple who lived together for 50 years.”

What does it say about Pius XII saving numerous lives? That’s what I am asking about.

“Read the book for yourself. As I said, I thought it was fascinating.”

Your fascination is not at question here. Did La Popessa say that Pius XII saved numerous lives?


844 posted on 03/17/2008 10:13:00 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: Invincibly Ignorant

You wrote:

“I’ve never met a catholic liberal. (eyes roll)”

I haven’t either, although I have met many liberals who call themselves Catholics.


845 posted on 03/17/2008 10:14:07 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: vladimir998
I haven’t either, although I have met many liberals who call themselves Catholics.

Hello God. Meet Invincibly Ignorant.

846 posted on 03/17/2008 10:14:49 AM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: vladimir998
I haven’t either, although I have met many liberals who call themselves Catholics.

My Catholic parents voted for Democrat (pro-abortionists) their whole lives. (may they rest in peace) It warms my heart to know you'll be judging them. Not.

847 posted on 03/17/2008 10:16:31 AM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: vladimir998
I haven’t either, although I have met many liberals who call themselves Catholics.

When you brag about a billion catholics worldwide, you probably need to shave liberals off of that number now that we know they're not catholics anymore.

848 posted on 03/17/2008 10:22:16 AM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Invincibly Ignorant

You wrote:

“When you brag about a billion catholics worldwide, you probably need to shave liberals off of that number now that we know they’re not catholics anymore.”

When did you ever see me brag about a billion Catholics? Never.


849 posted on 03/17/2008 10:26:06 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: Alamo-Girl; Dr. Eckleburg
... why would the Catholic Church be intimidated at all by Hitler, the Nazis, indeed any thing in this mortal life?

Not that excuses an individuals shortcomings, but did any Christian Churches really step up to stop the Nazis?

850 posted on 03/17/2008 10:37:29 AM PDT by wmfights (Believe - THE GOSPEL - and be saved)
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To: Marysecretary
I don’t give any of them credit for what they did, protestant OR Catholic. Just don’t pretend catholics were so innocent. NO ONE was. They were all under a demonic deception. ALL of Germany was. That’s why they kept quiet about the holocaust.

Wonderful point!

851 posted on 03/17/2008 10:40:56 AM PDT by wmfights (Believe - THE GOSPEL - and be saved)
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To: Campion
Here is another:

Defamation Of Pius XII by Ralph Mcinerny

852 posted on 03/17/2008 10:40:58 AM PDT by PhatHead
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Comment #853 Removed by Moderator

To: Dr. Eckleburg; Alamo-Girl; Quix; the_conscience; blue-duncan; wmfights; Marysecretary; ...
"If the Catholic Church is merely considered as a political institution that has to calculate the outcome of its decisions in terms of instrumental rationality, then Pius's choice may be deemed reasonable in view of the risks entailed.

Interesting point. Political vs. moral. A church that owes it's success to being a part of the state will probably never be able to act with out taking the political consequences into account.

854 posted on 03/17/2008 10:46:02 AM PDT by wmfights (Believe - THE GOSPEL - and be saved)
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Comment #855 Removed by Moderator

To: sandyeggo
Hitler was eventually appointed Chancellor, and his success in solving many of Germany's problems tempted most to look past his extreme racial views and vicious claims about the Jews.

Does anyone really believe the hatred of the Jews started in Germany and was Lutheran in character? Regrettably, Christian hatred towards the Jews goes way back and all Christian Churches have been guilty of it.

Not a bad post. :-0

856 posted on 03/17/2008 10:58:36 AM PDT by wmfights (Believe - THE GOSPEL - and be saved)
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To: Alamo-Girl

I pray that as this world is falling into worldwide hate and terror, that Pope Benedict will not blink.

= =

INDEED . . . Or worse, closing the eyes or turning away.

Any shabby treatment of Israel will be watched very closely by Almighty God.


857 posted on 03/17/2008 11:03:20 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: vladimir998
When did you ever see me brag about a billion Catholics? Never.

Shazam. You get off on a technicality again.

858 posted on 03/17/2008 11:16:50 AM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
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Comment #859 Removed by Moderator

To: sandyeggo

Ha ha! I’m surprised you remember that! Always have to put in a plug for family members...


860 posted on 03/17/2008 11:49:14 AM PDT by PhatHead
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