Study: Catholics losing the faith

Medill Reports ^ | Feb 27, 2008 | Greg Trotter

[Alex Murphy]

WASHINGTON — In the marketplace of American faith, Catholicism is the big loser.

No other religion in the United States has lost more members to other faiths, or to no faith at all, than Catholicism, according to the new survey released by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life. The survey, conducted in 2007, found that 31 percent of Americans were raised Catholic, but less than 25 per cent of them still identify as Catholic.

Roughly 10 percent of all Americans have strayed from Catholic roots, the study reported.

Despite the loss, the survey shows that Catholics still represent nearly a quarter of the American population – just as surveys conducted in the early 1970s found.

So how does a religion lose so many members and continue to break even?

“It may well be that a factor in the Catholic numbers are the repeated waves of immigration,” said John Green, senior fellow at the Pew Forum.

The study found that almost half of all immigrants coming into the U.S. are Catholics, most of them from Latin-American countries.

The wave of immigration is changing the make-up of Catholicism. Latinos represent 45 percent of all Catholics aged 18-29 years, while only accounting for 20 percent of Catholics aged 50-59.

Much of Catholicism’s loss can be chalked up to previous generations of immigrants assimilating into American culture and remaining less faithful to their ethnic identities and religions, Green said.

“That kind of assimilation is typical for any ethnic group,” said Mary Gautier, senior research associate at the Center for Applied Research and Apostolate, at Georgetown University. “And it affects all religions – not just Catholicism.”

Her research indicates the Catholic Church is positioned in a dynamic and vital place in time, Gautier said. But there are challenges to keeping the faithful in the pews. Intermarriages, dwindling numbers of priests, and insufficient church facilities are reasons why people might go elsewhere, she said.

The Rev. Allan Figueroa Deck, S.J., was not surprised by the study’s findings.

“The Church is falling behind,” said Deck, executive director of cultural diversity for the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops. “We don’t have enough foot soldiers.”

The Church’s teachings are not out of place with the times, Deck said, but there is a shortage of priests and lay ministers to spread the word, and effectively link parishoners to the Gospel.

“It’s our mission to evangelize and we are failing that,” said Deck, explaining that the term ‘evangelize’ includes the “conversion of the human heart and the promotion of social justice.”

The Catholic Church also struggles to reach out specifically to the needs of minority communities, such as blacks, Asians and Hispanics, said Deck, who has spent his career in the Hispanic ministry. And the assimilation of immigrants into the Church and also American culture is a tricky balance, he said.

“We have to be very careful,” Deck said. “Our role is to promote the Gospel, not any particular culture – not even American culture.”

[Judith Anne]

I agree with you. But it seems some arrogant posters think they can do no wrong.

[Twink]

I love this Pope. I appreciated and loved/respected JP2 but our Church needed someone like Benedict. Most practicing Catholics appreciate and thank God we have this Pope now. Many in the liberal American Catholic church didn’t want him as pope so they weren’t pleased.

Pope Benedict doesn’t cater to anyone(except Jesus and His teachings), note his speech and the backlash concerning Mohammed/Islam. One would think the non-muslim world would appreciate that. Especially America since 9-11. Sorta surprises me so many don’t. Then again, on the flip side, it doesn’t really surprise me since we’re heading towards socialiam and the masses are too stupid to see it or too lazy to fight it.

Vatican II did a few wonderful things in the ecumenical sense. And we finally reconciled with the Greek/Eastern Orthodox Church. It also did horrible things, liberal things to our Church and we’re still battling those.

Pope Benny rocks. I hope he lives long enough to make some real changes. More catholics are coming back to the church because of this Pope. It’s about time, imo.

[Twink]

I can list what I did wrong today, lol.

And don’t even get me started on posts I’ve made where I wish I wasn’t so harsh or edited my post (if I knew how to edit after posting).

I’m surprised about the arrogance because this is a conservative site and I expected better because of that. Don’t get me wrong, there have been far more positive experiences here, far more positive reading and posting. I’m just sorta shocked by the viciousness from some so called Christians. I’m all for fun posts, fun threads about anything. I don’t shove anything down anyone’s throat and expect the same (and I could get naughty here but I’ll refrain ;) ) It’s so easy to discuss things in real life even with the screaming so I don’t get why people get so nasty online.

But I have to say, it is nice not to even look or read posts once one is done saying what one wants to say. As time goes on, I’m learning who not to read, post to, reply to.

[TradicalRC]

You tell me.

I don’t recall the names of such events.

My reading on that score was decades ago.

Dear Quix,
I cannot tell you because I never HEARD of any "war of conquest" spearheaded by the Pope(s). However, YOU made the accusation, I merely assumed that you could back it up. It appears that you cannot. I expect that type of thing on a liberal site, but here at FR? They DO have standards here. Please try to back up arguments rather than resorting to stone throwing.
Sincerely,
-Trad.

[andysandmikesmom]

Judirh Anne and Twink...I agree completely with what the two of you have said...I have always enjoyed many of the Catholic threads, as I find many of the Catholic posters, well informed, and knowledgeable, and civil...

Really, I have rarely heard the Catholic posters, become vile or vicious...I have seen them go out of their way, to help others understand their religion, understand their history as a church, and understand where they are coming from...and they are always willing to help, repeatedly...

On the other hand, I have heard Catholics viciously called cannibals, because of their belief in transubstantiation, I have repeatedly heard how the Catholic church is just jammed packed full of priests who are pedophiles(in spite of the fact, that non-Catholic Christian churches have their own problems, with pedophilia, within their own ministers), I have heard the Catholics called ‘idol’ worshippers, because of the statues in their churches, I have heard Catholics called ‘Mary worshippers’, because of their special view of Mary, and on and on...true, this does not go on all of the time, but it certainly has happened enough times, for me and I am sure, for others, both posters and lurkers alike, to note, that Catholics are often the butt of the most vile attacks....

As are the Mormons, whose threads get quite out of control at times...

I am not a Catholic, I am not a Mormon, in fact, at this point in my life, I belong to no organized religion...I try to view this back and forth that goes on between the different religious factions here at FR, and try to see what they are stating as their beliefs, and how they back it up with Biblical references...

Each group, in its turn, seems to be the group that feels it is being unfairly targeted...

But my own view is, as I am coming from no organized religion, that the Catholic posters on FR, have indeed, shown themselves to be fine representatives of their religion, and I have very much enjoyed reading what they have to say, and have taken what they have to my heart, and tried to incorporate what they have said, into my daily Bible readings...I will just have to say, what the Catholic posters on FR have posted, have helped me immensely...

And on top of all of that, the Catholics, just seem very happy, delighted, and have a great joy in life, which to me, seems to come straight from their religious beliefs...

Take what I say, however you chose...I am just noting, how I have view these various religious threads over time...

[Judith Anne]

Thanks folks, just for being here. God bless.

[TradicalRC]

God bless you too, Judith Anne.

[Twink]

Thank you for that post.

My Mom was devoted to the Blessed Mother, said the Rosary daily. I know some don’t understand that, how the Rosary is such an important daily prayer or the devotion to the Blessed Mother, even me at times, but because of my mom, it holds special meaning and I now understand it. She’s Jesus’ mother. She’s not God, and we know that. But she is Jesus’ mother. We don’t pray to her in place of Jesus/God but as an intercession, and yes not necessary but a vital part of our history and the history of the church. Moreso, a part of our ethnic history maybe. At least mine. She’s His mother. Same with the 7 fishes dinner on Christmas Eve. I know may Catholics who don’t follow that, even Italian Catholics from a different region in Italy. I was raised to follow it, it’s a feast, a family get together and each fish stands for one of the Sacraments (shellfish not included but we have those too). It’s a wonderful tradition for the family and for honoring our Faith/Jesus. And all the kids complain, as I did, about eating fish, and only fish, but in a few years they’ll like it, lol, and understand the symbolism. It’s a tradition for certain Italian Catholics (not all) and tradition is good sometimes. It reminds everyone at the table, and in our house it’s 30+ and growing, that Jesus is the season, the focal point of the Christmas season because we can forget that.

The traditions, symbols, statues, are there to remind us, rich in history but not the only part. My husband, before he converted, always talked about the “tradition” things in the Catholic church. And how unimportant they were. He’s seen they’re important, just not the way the outside world thinks they are. They’re a reminder but not the focus. Catholics know that.

I don’t necessarily think that catholics are targeted here or anywhere else. But I do know we don’t fight back or use the “victim mentality” so readily used in our society. I hate the victim mentality, can’t understand why anyone wants to be a part of it, like it’s a good thing. I’m just surprised a conservative site has so many non conservatives.

I’ve been in a bible study group for over a year now and I’m learning tons. We had bible study in my grade and high school but until now I really didn’t know much about it. Or at least not as much as I wanted to and learning now.

One of my problems is, I don’t think much of the evangelical movement in my church or any church. I have my faith, not trying to convert anyone, but we’re taught to spread the gospel. I don’t care what anyone is, what church they belong to or what they believe as long as they don’t try to convert me or diss my faith.

Now with the threat of Islam so close, far closer than the average American realizes, we have to be vocal. We have to fight this.

I usually don’t read or post in religion threads other than those which are Catholic for prayers or Mass readings. Not sure how I got into this thread, lol, but I’m blaming it on the change. I hate computer change things. It’s probably PEBKAC.

I’ll regret this probably but will get over it with a beer ;)

Thank you. It was a nice post exchange.

[tioga]

Amen. My church has removed kneelers.....taken the crucifix down, laughs at the pope........I however remain loyal to the Pope and am essentially an underground orthodox Catholic in my church. My faith is strong, my church is weak.

[marshmallow]

Those who have been paying attention will not be surprised in the least. In fact, we're expecting the Church to shrink.

Pope Benedict himself has spoken of the Catholic Church becoming leaner, smaller and more fervent. This piece in the New York Times, for instance, discusses the subject. There are numerous other articles out there which discuss the same issue.

So there's good news and bad news for the usual suspects on this forum. The good news is that there will likely be many more articles in the future reporting dwindling numbers of Catholics, which should occasion high fives all around.

And the bad news?

Well, it's all happened before and it's not the end of the Catholic Church. Just a purification.

Sorry, folks.

[Cronos]

The RC edifice singles ITSELF OUT for note and response hereon

Once again, Christ's Church is properly called The Catholic Church -- we consist of 1 Western/Latin and 22 Eastern Catholic autonomous Churches, we are in communion with or close to communion with other Churchs, who we call Apostolic Churchs (Churchs founded by Christ through His Apostles) like the Eastern Orthodox, the Oriental and the Assyrian Churches -- an Apostolic Church is a Church of Christ. Other groups like the pente-whatever, tele-evangelicals, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc. are not Christian but on the contrary do the evil one's work by leading people astray

[Cronos]

Decades ago, when I wandered through such docs . . . they were not remotely as convincing as those on the Protty side

Really? Ok, so the guys who lived 200 years after Christ didn't know about their own times, but guys who lived 1600 years after Christ, i.e. 1400 to 1300 years after the first bunch, that second bunch you consider know more about the first bunch's time?

[Cronos]

And what if one does not believe that the pope is infallable?

Also, note the constraints on this infallibility: the pronouncements on Theological questions, ONLY when spoken with the EXPRESS statement that this is a statement from the Chair of Peter (not from Pope Benedict or Pope JP or any other Pope), THAT is considered infallible --> this was in effect a self-imposed constraint put on the Papacy: the Pope has to pray continuously to get the correct answer from God and it is meant only to settle dogmatic disputes: you can't have the Pope saying that the Red Sox would/should win.

[Cronos]

I have no need to “prove” it to you or anyone else.

yes you DO, when you insult us Christians, you insult our family, all of us --> you just make some strange statements and cut and run

[Cronos]

you don’t see the little snipe Quix said “magicsterical” —> since he doesn’t have an argument, he resorts to little insults.

[Cronos]

It’s just their biases that prevent enlightenment from the UNRUBBERIZED history.

TRC -- don't you understand? Only Quix has the gift of knowledge, the gnosis, to know God, and the only way for us to learn is at the feet of Quix to gain this esoteric gnosis /sarc

[Cronos]

Hilarious!!
TRC: So you cannot or will not name these wars of conquest initiated by the Pope(s)?
Quix: You tell me. I don’t recall the names of such events. My reading on that score was decades ago

Hilarious -- Quix just seems to be spouting accusations out of thin air.

[Mad Dawg]

I honestly believed that you folks thought the man to be infallable.

I honestly believe that you believed that. :-)

When J2P2 was dying, one of the deputies kept saying to me, "He's just a man." I was confused until I realized that he was one of the many who have listened to those who hate Catholicism to form his opinion about what the Church teaches.

First we distinguish between infallibility and impeccability. Popes can and do sin, some really a lot. They generally have confessors, which they wouldn't want if they didn't sin. Dante has a pretty dense population of popes in the Inferno.

Second about infallibility, one way to start thinking about it, to get the flavor, is to think that it does NOT, so to speak, inhere in the person, but rather in the office and its exercise. When Papa Ben XVI writes Jesus of Nazareth, he clearly says that this is NOT infallible, it's just his personal opinion.

So I get the book, NOT to get the authoritative inside skinny on IHS, but more out of (nauseating Catholic term alert!) filial affection. I want to know what Papa Ben thinks because he's the Pope and because my pastor, who studied under him, says it's a really good book. So two "fathers" recommend the book. I can't read ALL the books about IHS, so I'll read this one. But I won't bow to the east or anything. I'll argue with it in my alleged mind and with my homies.

So, while I guess there could be disagreement about how many infallible statements have been made, we can learn from the way they get made.

In the Marian dogmas what we have are questions which have been discussed for a LONG time. The Immaculate Conception had been on the table at least 500 years before a Pope finally said enough already.

In addition there is usually "popular pressure" to resolve the issue. Say a bunch of people are referring to Mary as "The Immaculate" and another bunch are saying, "Now hold on a minute." And there is a ginormous body of scholarly discussion.

With that background, and considering that Popes recently have been pretty scholarly and thoughtful themselves and surround themselves with similar people and can pretty much get through anybody's receptionist to get the opinion of whomever they want, the Pope huddles with his homies and can get a very informed and complete digest of the opinions and arguments either way..

Also, there's a whole lot of praying going on.

And also, there is very great confidence in the promises we hold IHS to have made to His Church.

AND there's the meaning of "apostle" which seems to be "a person sent with authority."

So THEN the Pope rears back and lets fly with a statement, usually including the words of great mojo, "I declare and define ... ."

In the case of the Immaculate Conception, we hold that the statement was strongly confirmed by visions, including those to Bernadette and to Catherine Laboure. (My tag is a prayer which Mary revealed to Catherine Laboure as part of the "miraculous medal" vision.)

If the Pope says, "I like the Patriots in the Super Bowl," the understanding of infallibility is not touched by the outcome. We'd pretty much need a registered and notarized letter from God saying, "She was not either immaculately conceived," before the doctrine (of papal infallibility) would be in trouble.

All this is not meant to be persuasive, but merely a description of what the doctrine means to us, and as such, I hope it's helpful.

[Mad Dawg]

My parish has put in kneelers AND a statue of Mary WITH a candle rack thingie! We LOVE Papa Ben: we pray for the cause of the canonization of J2P2: we have a vital and growing pro-chapter of the Dominican Laity; we have RCIA that involves (hold onto your hats) real live theology and real live discussions of virtue and vice and sin and redemption!

We have young men offering themselves for the priesthood, one of our members just left to become a Franciscan sister and not in one of them thar feminist covens neither! We only have three catechumens this year, but 20-some people to be confirmed on Easter, and over thirty last year and 5 catechumens.

I'm not worried

[tioga]

I have a liberal bishop, I am worried. It will be a number of years yet till his retirement.