ROMAN CATHOLICISM: A DIFFERENT GOSPEL

Apprising Ministries ^ | January 16, 2008 | Ken Silva

[Manfred the Wonder Dawg]

ROMAN CATHOLICISM: A DIFFERENT GOSPEL

In their lust for unity the Emergent Church and post-evangelical “Protestants” are right now embracing the Roman Catholic Church as another Christian denomination. But the issue is simple: If, as taught the Church of Rome, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without “the new birth in baptism” then we are now in hopeless contradiction with the Gospel contained in Holy Scripture.

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. (Galatians 1:8)

Speaking The Truth In Love

Let me make this as clear as I possibly can for the Roman Catholics who may read this work in Christ from Apprising Ministries. I personally am former member of the Church of Rome and care very deeply about those, such as the majority of my own family line, who are trapped in this apostate man-made system of religion known as Roman Catholicism. I also fully realize that what I say may sound “unloving” and possibly even “harsh.” However, there is just nothing that I can do about that. By not telling the Truth we aren’t doing anyone a service.

[Quix]

I’m not familiar with this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADcKQI3LJYc

Is his research and are his sources solid? I haven’t listened to the whole thing.

Wondered how much substance there was to him before I did.

Seems like there’s some plausibility to the assertions . . . all the more so, maybe given the Malachi Martin? is it . . . the RC bloke who predicted 1 more Pope after this one—an evil one???

[1000 silverlings]

One error is that some say baptism is a sign and a seal, but I was not taught that, nor do I believe it. The only sign and seal a Christian needs is the blood of Christ that covers him.

Just as we are commanded to preach the Great Commission, we are commanded to be baptized. This doesn't make you holy or better than anyone else, it brings you the blessing of obedience.

Though I'm sure parents mean well and think that they are baptizing their infants, truly they are not. The baby of believers unfortunately, is no more holy, or even elect, than the baby of unbelievers. Perhaps he or she does have a measure of divine protection, but it is up to the individual alone to repent and make a confession of Christ. The church can't do it for you and your parents can't do it for you.

There is a whole nation today of baptized unbelievers, but the truth is they were never baptized, not according to the New Testament anyway. Their parents thought the rite was some sort of voodoo and would protect them. If they are unregenerated then they are still unsaved.

Note also that "Jesus came up out of the water" and the theological implications go deeper as we have privately discussed before.

[Mad Dawg]

YOu wanna know how celestial navigation works?

I once taught myself "celestial". Kind of approprite for a sky-pilot, huh?)

Basically you pull out of your, uh, whatchamacallit a guess as to where you are. Then you "shoot" your stars. Then you figure out where they SHOULD have been if you were where you guessed you were. Then you calculate what the angle difference between where they should have been and where they are is.

You do that three times and you have a triangle (I skipped some steps). And you figure you're in the middle of the triangle.

It actually works!

In other words, if one is afraid of being wrong, one will never figure out where one is!

(Mind you, in my case, I'm used to being wrong, but I STILL don't know where I am. However, God does, so I'm cool.)

[narses]

+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.

Rome became officially apostate in 1545 when it declared

If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema.

Really? Odd, others on this thread swear it was 331. Or was that 313? Any how, prior to 1545 was the Roman Mass heretical? The other six Sacraments (Baptism, marraige, confession, confirmation, annoiting of the sick and Holy Orders), were they heretical?

[narses]

“Your religion has plenty of heresy in it.”

What religion is that you speak of? What denomination are you?

[Antoninus]

Okay. So why concentrate on the “false” teachings of fellow Christians when there are a growing number of Islamists? For the life of me, I will never understand why so many non-Catholics have to take so many shots at the Catholics.

Because when you're the big dog, all the little dogs want a piece of you. It's a latent inferiority complex for many. They can't help themselves.

Fact: Protestantism has been around for over 500 years, and yet the Catholic Church is still by far the largest Christian Church in the world--and growing by leaps and bounds among the largest groups of non-evangelized peoples left in the world in Asia and Africa. Meanwhile, "evangelical" protestantism focuses it's efforts on poorly educated Catholics in Latin America. Where in Scripture does it say: "Go forth to other Christians who have already heard My name and make of them members of your own peculiar sect"?

[StAthanasiustheGreat]

At least they finally furnished a date, though it doesn’t help their argument a great deal.

[hosepipe]

O.K.. Sky Pilot..

I Cor 12,13,14 is a unit, a primer, on how to function as a corporate body (more than one member).. "Where ever two or three meet there am I in your midst"..

I Cor Ch 12 .. sumed up.. :
"The body is unit though it is made up of many parts.. and though all its parts are many, they form one body" -I Cor 12;12

I Cor Ch13 .. sumed up;
"If I speak with the tongue(s) of men or angels and have not love, I am a clanging gong ot clanging cymbol" -I Cor Ch13;1.

I Cor ch14 .. sumed up..
"Follow the way of love but eagerly desire to prophecy(the word of your testimony).. -I Cor Ch 14;1..
---------------------------

The gathering (of the flock) is about shareing the christ through testimony by power of the Holy Spirit(paraclete).. that ALREADY indwells.. Not about gulping down a cookie.. representing some alleged or real symbol of christ.. observed by the Holy Spirit.. The gathering "should be" a love feast.. A feast of fellowship.. with many small portions of christ lived out locally.. As a testimony to the reality of the indwelling christ..

Chapters 12,13,14 of I COr. is Paul attempt to display this "a church" needing milk instead of meat.. i.e. the meat of scripture, and daily spiritual living.. Actually Ephesians is much deeper into this kind of thing..

[narses]

Methinks my tag line gave them the hint.

[narses]

Well said!

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Sorry, Steven ... I disagree. Most of the time it's the Catholics defending their beliefs against posts like this article. Can you show me some articles posted by a Catholic that shows the same kind of attitude toward non-Catholics as this article shows against Catholics?

Sorry Al you can disagree all you want but you'd be wrong. I can show you that just about in every catholic article posted there are "protestants are wrong inferences". Take it from me, I'm nuetral.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

I also strongly suggest that Catholics on FR don’t feel legitimized unless they can hollar “I’m being persectued” once in awhile. Ya’ll are pretty much babies. :-)

[OLD REGGIE]

Sorry, Steven ... I disagree. Most of the time it's the Catholics defending their beliefs against posts like this article. Can you show me some articles posted by a Catholic that shows the same kind of attitude toward non-Catholics as this article shows against Catholics?

Would you say I was attacking the Catholic Church if day after day I posted another article concerning a Priest leaving the Catholic Church because he was convinced it was in error?

There are many thousands of Priests who leave the Catholic Church every year for one reason or other yet I hunt in vain to find "Protestants" who make it a habit to hunt them up and post propaganda pieces by, or concerning them.

NYer does this on a regular basis and if I happened to be a "Protestant" playing the innocent victim I could make the same crybaby claim you are doing.

Coincidentally, when I signed on a few minutes ago the posting at the very top was Former Southern Baptist Pastor Now a Traveling Crusader for the Catholic Church

Is this an "attack" piece? What purpose does it serve?

[Gamecock]

Heresy can be forgiven but once you deny Grace alone it’s all over.

[TASMANIANRED]

Mighty smug about your bigotry.

[trisham]

What purpose does it serve?

*******************

It offers some very good advice, as good and relevant today as when it was first published:

So first the baptized must be taught their own faith, and then taught how to answer criticisms of that faith from non-Catholic Christians who are very misinformed about the faith just like I was. And a kind answer turns away wrath -- you've got to be filled with love and with charity, but you have to know the faith. When it comes to those who have no faith at all, you need to ask yourself, 'Do I know how to share the love of Christ with them? Can I convince them of their need for God and salvation?' Can you love them into the Kingdom? God does the converting, we don't convert anybody. Our job is to be the best Catholics we can be. My job is not to tell you what to believe but to explain the faith. Then you must decide what you believe."

[rbosque]

You don’t know what you are talking about. You are only here to bash my faith, and what purpose does that serve? Is it egoism? Perhaps you are trying to justify your own faith by vilifying the Catholic Church.

“The holy Roman Church is senior to the other churches not by virtue of any synodal decrees, but obtained the primacy from Our Lord and Savior in the words of the Gospel, ‘Thou art Peter...’” Pope Gelasius, Decree of Gelasium (A.D. 492).

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Though I'm sure parents mean well and think that they are baptizing their infants, truly they are not.

No, my children were baptized because the promise is not only made to me, but to my children. Christ said not to keep the children from Him so they could receive His blessings. IMO it's a grave error to do what He admonishes us not to do.

"And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them.

But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein." -- Mark 10:13-15

I don't think Christ was speaking figuratively here. He was pretty specific. Only God can number anyone among His family, and He does that from day one.

I don't know for a fact my children are among the elect. I do, however, have faith in God's promise that they are and that He is their Father in heaven. It's my responsibility to raise them up to study the word of God and to teach them that Christ died for them. God willing, He will make those words come alive within them, and they will know their salvation has been won by Christ on the cross.

The baby of believers unfortunately, is no more holy, or even elect, than the baby of unbelievers.

Well, that's not what the Bible says...

"For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy." -- 1 Corinthians 7:14

Perhaps he or she does have a measure of divine protection, but it is up to the individual alone to repent and make a confession of Christ. The church can't do it for you and your parents can't do it for you.

You're right. The church doesn't do it. And parents don't do it. And most especially, we don't do it for ourselves. It is a gift. We don't declare the gift publicly to obtain the works of God. We declare the gift publicly to acknowledge and display the works of God wrought in us by the Holy Spirit.

Therefore, like everything good in our lives, the ability to repent and believe is a gift from God which illustrates our election; it's not a requirement for our election. Our declaration of faith is not supposed to be formalized into one moment in time of public recognition; it's to be lived every day of our lives.

Making salvation dependent on a "yeah" or "nay" denies that God works His election not according to men's choices, but to His choice alone. It smacks of swearing an oath, and that's not a good habit to get into.

We are not saved when and because we understand we are saved; we were saved because God ordained our salvation from before the foundation of the world, "before we could do anything good or evil."

I don't know for certain that the children of all believing parents are saved. No one does. God may choose to give someone a devil child for His own reasons. But that's not the point of baptism -- to put some invisible protection over someone. It's not a cause and effect situation. It's a commandement -- do this because you are called to recognize your children as part of the promise, as members of the family of God.

Just like the Lord's Supper is not a cause and effect situation. We are not made holy by partaking in the Lord's Supper. We do it because we were commanded to do it in order to bring us closer to Him.

Otherwise we fall into the trap of Rome which says the sacrament or the ordinance itself saves us which is pretty close to what you have said. And that's just not true. Our bowing to Christ is not what saves us. Christ saves us, and thus we bow to Him.

There is a whole nation today of baptized unbelievers, but the truth is they were never baptized, not according to the New Testament anyway. Their parents thought the rite was some sort of voodoo and would protect them. If they are unregenerated then they are still unsaved.

Sorry, but this is exactly what Catholics tell us about not receiving the baptism of the RCC.

No Protestant parent thinks baptism is some "voodoo" that will protect their child. Did the blood on the doors of the Jews saved their first born? Yes. Was it the blood on the door that actually saved them, or was it God who saved them and the blood was a sign and seal of His salvation?

Only God saves. We're commanded to acknowledge that the blessing is extended by God to us and our children. That's what the Bible says and I believe it.

Pinging a few others for their input. Unfortunately, Orthodox Presbyterian has been banned. His thoughts were always Godly on this subject.

[OLD REGGIE]

It offers some very good advice, as good and relevant today as when it was first published:

"So first the baptized must be taught their own faith, and then taught how to answer criticisms of that faith from non-Catholic Christians who are very misinformed about the faith just like I was. And a kind answer turns away wrath -- you've got to be filled with love and with charity, but you have to know the faith. When it comes to those who have no faith at all, you need to ask yourself, 'Do I know how to share the love of Christ with them? Can I convince them of their need for God and salvation?' Can you love them into the Kingdom? God does the converting, we don't convert anybody. Our job is to be the best Catholics we can be. My job is not to tell you what to believe but to explain the faith. Then you must decide what you believe."

Oh I see---all these postings by NYer are messages "...filled with love and with charity."

Of course you'd agree if I posted messages "filled with love and with charity" from ex-Priests?

[AliVeritas]

Ping me when someone explains how they got the scriptures; Also how some books came to be missing... and why.