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To: Dr. Eckleburg; wmfights
One error is that some say baptism is a sign and a seal, but I was not taught that, nor do I believe it. The only sign and seal a Christian needs is the blood of Christ that covers him.

Just as we are commanded to preach the Great Commission, we are commanded to be baptized. This doesn't make you holy or better than anyone else, it brings you the blessing of obedience.

Though I'm sure parents mean well and think that they are baptizing their infants, truly they are not. The baby of believers unfortunately, is no more holy, or even elect, than the baby of unbelievers. Perhaps he or she does have a measure of divine protection, but it is up to the individual alone to repent and make a confession of Christ. The church can't do it for you and your parents can't do it for you.

There is a whole nation today of baptized unbelievers, but the truth is they were never baptized, not according to the New Testament anyway. Their parents thought the rite was some sort of voodoo and would protect them. If they are unregenerated then they are still unsaved.

Note also that "Jesus came up out of the water" and the theological implications go deeper as we have privately discussed before.

522 posted on 03/01/2008 10:35:56 AM PST by 1000 silverlings (Everything that deceives also enchants: Plato)
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To: 1000 silverlings; wmfights; Gamecock; Alex Murphy; topcat54; Frumanchu; ears_to_hear; suzyjaruki; ..
Though I'm sure parents mean well and think that they are baptizing their infants, truly they are not.

No, my children were baptized because the promise is not only made to me, but to my children. Christ said not to keep the children from Him so they could receive His blessings. IMO it's a grave error to do what He admonishes us not to do.

"And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them.

But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein." -- Mark 10:13-15

I don't think Christ was speaking figuratively here. He was pretty specific. Only God can number anyone among His family, and He does that from day one.

I don't know for a fact my children are among the elect. I do, however, have faith in God's promise that they are and that He is their Father in heaven. It's my responsibility to raise them up to study the word of God and to teach them that Christ died for them. God willing, He will make those words come alive within them, and they will know their salvation has been won by Christ on the cross.

The baby of believers unfortunately, is no more holy, or even elect, than the baby of unbelievers.

Well, that's not what the Bible says...

"For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy." -- 1 Corinthians 7:14

Perhaps he or she does have a measure of divine protection, but it is up to the individual alone to repent and make a confession of Christ. The church can't do it for you and your parents can't do it for you.

You're right. The church doesn't do it. And parents don't do it. And most especially, we don't do it for ourselves. It is a gift. We don't declare the gift publicly to obtain the works of God. We declare the gift publicly to acknowledge and display the works of God wrought in us by the Holy Spirit.

Therefore, like everything good in our lives, the ability to repent and believe is a gift from God which illustrates our election; it's not a requirement for our election. Our declaration of faith is not supposed to be formalized into one moment in time of public recognition; it's to be lived every day of our lives.

Making salvation dependent on a "yeah" or "nay" denies that God works His election not according to men's choices, but to His choice alone. It smacks of swearing an oath, and that's not a good habit to get into.

We are not saved when and because we understand we are saved; we were saved because God ordained our salvation from before the foundation of the world, "before we could do anything good or evil."

I don't know for certain that the children of all believing parents are saved. No one does. God may choose to give someone a devil child for His own reasons. But that's not the point of baptism -- to put some invisible protection over someone. It's not a cause and effect situation. It's a commandement -- do this because you are called to recognize your children as part of the promise, as members of the family of God.

Just like the Lord's Supper is not a cause and effect situation. We are not made holy by partaking in the Lord's Supper. We do it because we were commanded to do it in order to bring us closer to Him.

Otherwise we fall into the trap of Rome which says the sacrament or the ordinance itself saves us which is pretty close to what you have said. And that's just not true. Our bowing to Christ is not what saves us. Christ saves us, and thus we bow to Him.

There is a whole nation today of baptized unbelievers, but the truth is they were never baptized, not according to the New Testament anyway. Their parents thought the rite was some sort of voodoo and would protect them. If they are unregenerated then they are still unsaved.

Sorry, but this is exactly what Catholics tell us about not receiving the baptism of the RCC.

No Protestant parent thinks baptism is some "voodoo" that will protect their child. Did the blood on the doors of the Jews saved their first born? Yes. Was it the blood on the door that actually saved them, or was it God who saved them and the blood was a sign and seal of His salvation?

Only God saves. We're commanded to acknowledge that the blessing is extended by God to us and our children. That's what the Bible says and I believe it.

Pinging a few others for their input. Unfortunately, Orthodox Presbyterian has been banned. His thoughts were always Godly on this subject.

538 posted on 03/01/2008 2:04:33 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg (("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose))
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To: 1000 silverlings
Just as we are commanded to preach the Great Commission, we are commanded to be baptized. This doesn't make you holy or better than anyone else, it brings you the blessing of obedience.

There is a joy that comes out of obedience.

556 posted on 03/01/2008 4:35:44 PM PST by wmfights (Believe - THE GOSPEL - and be saved)
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