Bishop says Catholics should kneel, receive communion on tongue

CNS ^ | January 8, 2008 | Cindy Wooden

[AliVeritas]

Yes!

[vladimir998]

You asked: “Do you suppose some pagan who went to an N.O. folk mass or better yet a clown mass where the laity knelt to receive communion would be so impressed as to believe that God dwelt there with men?”

Nope. I also don’t think that same pagan would believe God dwelt with men when he sees Eastern Orthodox monks stand in the Church of the Nativity and beat each other with sticks.

Point taken?

[Campion]

better yet a clown mass where the laity knelt to receive communion

Show me one of those.

I think you're conflating traditional Latin piety (which is different than Greek piety, not better, not worse, just different) with notorious abuses which have arisen in some places in the absence of that traditional piety.

Your post surprises and disappoints me, K. I thought you were in favor of, e.g., the restoration of the Tridentine Latin Mass. I can assure you that people at the TLM do not receive standing, and there are no clowns involved.

K., over Christmas vacation I attended Divine Liturgy at a Ukrainian Catholic church, and then two days later a solemn high Latin TLM at a Latin Rite church. Both were equally beautiful, equally reverent, and equally holy.

[NYer]

This is true...and in the patristic era people received communion standing up, like we still do in Orthodoxy and Oriental Orthodoxy.

The tradition in the Latin Church has ALWAYS been to receive the Body of Christ, kneeling. THAT is the penultimate sign of their reverence. The Easterners receive communion standing, an equal sign of reverence, since communion is by intinction.

Do you suppose some pagan who went to an N.O. folk mass or better yet a clown mass where the laity knelt to receive communion would be so impressed as to believe that God dwelt there with men?

This is totally out of character for you but not surprising. Your disdain for the Western Church and the papacy is often manifested in your posts. Perhaps you need to revisit this thread.

Why Doesn't the Pope Do Something about "Bad" Bishops?

[NYer]

Welcome to Free Republic!

This is really the only sensible manner of receiving Communion, if one actually considers what he’s doing.

Agreed. The Eastern Catholic Churches distribute communion by intinction, thus eliminatng communion in the hand. Also, there are no EMHCs in the Eastern Churches; communion is distributed by the priest or a deacon or, of course, the bishop. It is distributed standing, an equal sign of reverence.

[NYer]

I could kneel on the floor...

There have been several occasions here in the Diocese of Albany, when I attended the NO Mass and there were no kneelers. During the Consecration, I knelt on the floor .... while the rest of the congregation sat or stood. In the more 'progressive' dioceses, the general Catholic populace has been weaned away from traditional forms of worship. It is truly sad to witness the sham Catholic education and homiletics that have resulted in this apathy and indifference.

[tioga]

there was an uproar in our church when the priest who removed our kneelers ordered us to kneel on the floor to recieve communion.........we STOOD. sad to say the arthritis is so bad in my knees and I cannot kneel anymore....and certainly NOT all the way to the floor with no handrails around.......not gonna happen......I would need assistance to get up again.

[TASMANIANRED]

Standing is more respectful than sitting but kneeling is the only reverential position during the Consecration.

[livius]

I understand your position (no pun intended!), but why did he remove the kneelers and then order you to kneel? This is very strange. What diocese are you in?

[tioga]

Diocese of Rochester, NY. Because he is a JERK! we stared at one another in disbelief.......and we STOOD for Communion. He got ticked off, but he never tried that again.

[livius]

If he removed the kneelers and then ordered you to kneel, I assume he was definitely a jerk just trying to make a cheap point.

[nina0113]

I’d be happy to kneel if they’d put the rail back so I could GET BACK UP.

[netmilsmom]

In my parish, we have 12 removable kneelers. Everyone kneels for communion and receive on the tongue.

[Kolokotronis]

“Point taken?”

Yup, though you’ll admit folk masses, at least thus far, are more common than battling monks, though not so hallowed by ancient tradition! :)

[vladimir998]

You wrote:

“Yup, though you’ll admit folk masses, at least thus far, are more common than battling monks, though not so hallowed by ancient tradition!”

Agreed. And I go to the Latin Mass for a reason!

[Kolokotronis]

"Show me one of those."

A clown mass? Here's one from the diocese of Oakland. The priest is Fr. Brian Joyce.

"Your post surprises and disappoints me, K. I thought you were in favor of, e.g., the restoration of the Tridentine Latin Mass."

I am in favor of it. What I am not in favor of is the idiotic notion that kneeling for communion, as opposed to standing for it (and all other praying at Sunday Liturgies), as required by the 20th Canon of the Council of Nicea, btw, is somehow more likely to inspire a pagan into believing that God is present than not! Kneeling on Sundays is in fact forbidden by that canon, enacted by the First Ecumenical Council. Now, that canon is honored more in the breach than in the keeping in certain churches in Orthodoxy, my own GOA is a good example. But the overwhelming majority of Orthodox Christians obey that canon and even the Greeks are not so presumptuous as to make a positive virtue out of violation of a canon of an Ecumenical Council.

Frankly, C, I'm surprised that you and other posters here believe that kneeling on Sundays was always the practice in the West and that you apparently didn't know that there is a canon positively forbidding it. Do you think that an Orthodox Christian, or an Oriental Orthodox Christian or an Eastern Rite Christian in Communion with Rome, all of whom (well at least those who have been allowed by Rome to retain their ancient rites)obey the 20th Canon of Nicea, will react positively to the claim of some Latin that violation of a canon is a spiritual virtue, is a demonstration of piety beyond that shown by standing for the receipt of communion? What it looks like, Campion, is Latin arrogance.

[Kolokotronis]

“The Easterners receive communion standing, an equal sign of reverence, since communion is by intinction.”

I am really curious as to where you got the idea that communion is by “intinction” in the East and thus standing for reception of communion is necessary? First off, “intinction” is virtually unknown in the East as the use of azymes is quite limited. So far as I know, intinction is used only in those Eastern churches whose ancient rites and or praxis or elements of praxis were stamped out by Rome. Second, as I said earlier, we stand on Sunday because the 1st Ecumenical Council ordered it.

Anyway, I am curious as to where your notion came from.

[Kolokotronis]

“And I go to the Latin Mass for a reason!”

Good reason no doubt. There are many in this Latin diocese who wish they could, including various Orthodox who have occasion to be at Latin liturgies (for me, at least the annual Red Mass)but the local ordinary has pretty much forbidden them as a practical matter. He’s far more interested in promoting the expansion of Mohammedanism, whose devotees are recipients of the largess of Catholic Charities around here and thus a source of federal dollars. Some of us think he’s also a syncretist, but that’s another story altogether.

[Milly]

I wish.............

[Milly]

I’m dreaming with you.