HE INCREASES AND SHE DECREASES [Mary, Mother of God]

The Rock ^ | May 1994 | Mark Shea

[Salvation]

I’ve never seen that. Thank you!

[Mad Dawg]

Evidently even good wholesome bread cast upon the waters can bring forth the monsters of the deep.

[Salvation]

Sancta Maria,
ora pro nobis.
Holy Mary,
pray for us,
your children here upon the earth,
sinful, sorrowful,
so often lost and lone.
Come to us when our hearts are heavy,
when we most need our mother,
and lead us to the fruit of your womb,
Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us now and at the hour of our death, Amen.

Sancta Dei Genetrix,
ora pro nobis.
Holy Mother of God,
who was graced to know Jesus
like no other human,
whose kind and gentle advice is
Do whatever he tells you,
pray for us
now and at the hour of our death, Amen.

Mater dolorosa,
ora pro nobis.
Mother of sorrows,
You understand grief in that special way
that comes from offering up
the best and the brightest
gift of your heart,
without anger,
without curses.
Seeing your son in his sorrow and pain,
you suffered
like a woman in labor,
martyred alive
to become our mother.
Pray for us
now and at the hour of our death, Amen.

Refugium peccatorum,
ora pro nobis.
Refuge of sinners,
Thank you, o sweet Mary,
You who come looking for us,
lost in the night,
like a worried mother
seeking her lost child
In this time where the twlight grows so dim,
and so much is so confusing,
we need our mother,
take us by the hand,
and bring us to the foot of the Cross,
to Jesus your son,
where we may find the true light.
Sancta Maria,
Mater Dei,
ora pro nobis peccatoribus, nunc,
et in hora mortis nostrae.
Amen.

[Mad Dawg]

but no neutral observer would see that picture that way.

And no neutral observer would see elephants and donkeys as emblematic of political parties. The painting was not painted for neutral observers. It, as much religious art does, has a certain level of conventionality.

And that goes for the Aryan (See, I went ahead an said it) Mother of the Lord. The painting was not meant to be photographic. I don't think there were any cameras at the Assumption. (And, who knows, maybe we're all blonds in heaven, didja think of that?)

If you read von Eschenbach's Parzival, you will note that not too long ago, Europeans had some pretty intriguing notions about skin color and race and stuff.

Come on, this is basic 7th grade art history stuff .....

[Mad Dawg]

Why do Catholics get so anxious when people question them about their ‘worship’ or ‘adoration’ of Mary?

Do they? Anxious? really? How did you come by this knowledge, if knowledge it be?

[Mad Dawg]

According to the Bible there is only one Mediator between God and man....Jesus.

Well actually, according to the Bible at least some of us are to make prayers and intercessions and to give thanks for all men.

Think of mediators between Unions and Management, these people have special acceptance by both sides.

I don't see this explication of ALL mediators in the Bible.

When Mary was alive, after Jesus assended into heaven, she could have prayed for those living, but her prayers would go to the same mediator as anyone elses...Jesus.

Well, of course we hold that the holy ones (hagioi? The word translated as 'saints') are alive in Christ But we agree enthusiastically that Mary's prayers still and always go to and through Jesus. Who says we don't think so?

Praying to Mary is not something the earliest Christians did or else it would have been recorded in the Bible.

Does it say that in the Bible? Does it say that everything that the early Christians did is recorded in the Bible?

[Mrs. Don-o]

Lovely Presentation pic. Look at the size of That Kid!

We always put up our Christmas tree on Christrmas Eve (oh so very properly according to the Liturgical Calendar, y’know, plus we get a $60 tree for two bucks!) -— and take it down on Epiphany. But I’m lobbying Mr. Don-o to keep it up until Candlemas. Don’t know if we can. We also heat the house with a woodstove, and the tree is in the livingroom with the stove: my husband, being the more sensible one, is always aware of fire hazard.

But I love the Epiphany Season. To me it’s a long afterglow.

[BlueAngel]

Beautiful thread, thank you!

[Mad Dawg]

Your desire to proclaim blessings onto Jesus's Earthly Mom is exactly the same as that 'certain woman' commented on in Luke. It clouds and confuses people on what is more important. You would be better off reading the word of God and proclaiming people keep that, rather then 'honoring' Mary.

My guess is that most of the confused people are protestants who reject the teaching before they understand it. Certainly every Catholic whom I know and converse with quite understands who is King of kinds and Lord of lords.

So when Mary said this,

ιδου γαρ απο του νυν μακαριουσιν με πασαι γενεαι, ...

she was really upset about it, but just failed to mention that she wished it wouldn't happen? But it doesn't say that in the Bible, so maybe we shouldn't conclude that?

[wtc911]

Do you follow the Bible in its entirety?

[Mad Dawg]

I know beyond any shadow of a doubt that if a doctrine isn't supported by Scripture, it isn't what God wants of me.

Can you show me where the Bible says that unequivocally and without the, ah, mediation of interpretation or tradition?

[Mad Dawg]

Epiphany is, I think, contemplative. We have the Nativity, it implies the Incarnation, now here’s the Incarnation in action!

[dangus]

Ahhh, Quix... such is the inigma of the Catholic faith with regards to Mary. If at first see her as we approach Jesus, we go to where she is, which is adoring Jesus. Once we are there, we see her not, even though she is right there with us, because while she is there, our eyes are fixed on Jesus.

She represents the Church, and therefore our redeemed selves, in each of those scenes; our challenge is to live up to that representation.

[dangus]

>> Yeah the dead are different from us......THEY ARE DEAD! <<

YOu seriously need to read Revelations, where the dead are depicted as alive, sentient, watching the events unfolding on Earth, and giving praise to God throughout. This is why Jesus announced to the thief, “Truly I tell you, this day you will be with me in paradise.”

(Paradise is NOT Heaven, but this demonstrates that the thief would not be dead.)

[GoLightly]

Why didn’t you label this thread “devotional”?

[Quix]

Buddhists have told me similar things about standing in front of their images.

I don’t think God will be very impressed with their arguments . . . nor that of many RC’s who cross the line into idol worship.

Again . . . Pentecostsls, Contrarian Preterists etc. have plenty of outrageous idol worship in their groups, too. It’s just less overt, hidden behind also similarly sounding rationalizations.

[Jaded]

Thanks for the post. As to the rest.... and I thought I had no life?

Have a Blessed New Year!

[Dr. Eckleburg]

but the tilt is clear, to me.

Sadly.

THE CULT OF THE VIRGIN MARY
PSYCHOLOGICAL ORIGINS
by Michael P. Carroll

[Quix]

TRUE TRUE

THX

still wrestling with computer problems . . . but was mercifully able to throw a large thin bowl yesterday afternoon—about 14 inches in diameter and 7 inches high

[GoLightly]

Happy New Year Mary Did You Know