Single Word Change in Book of Mormon Speaks Volumes

Christ never demanded 10% as a condition to go to the temple.

Magic underwear did not save the victims of Mark Hoffman.

Hinckley was not able to discern that the Hoffman material was fake. Bought it to hide the truth he thought it revealed.

Phony appearance of self righteousness by fake true believers becomes very boring.

A beer or ten on a Saturday afternoon with a gorgeous Freeper is not a sin. No doubt about that.

A beer or ten? Might I add beer goggles are not a sin, but beauty in the eye of the beer-holder.

LOL. I am free of the Mormon crap. What an insidious, imprisioning, closed minded set of beliefs. Sometimes I wonder how ANYONE in their right mind could believe, and then I remember....

(I’m now getting set for the personal attacks that are sure to come after my three day absence from FR)

It’s a reflection of the darkness in themselves.

OOOOoooooo! Anyone who doesn't buy the LDS story has "darkness in themselves".

Nothing arrogant about that!

The question I have, and this applies to anyone who claims extra-Scriptural revelation, is why it took so long for this to be made known?

If God had something so important and true to say, why didn’t Jesus just tell us? Why wait 1800 years to do it? Did all those people who weren’t Mormons die and go to hell for all that time? What kind of God would that be?

:)

Did all those people who weren’t Mormons die and go to hell for all that time? What kind of God would that be?

The mormons have that covered...they baptize the dead by proxy and then perform the ordinances required by the LDS for that soul to reach "exaltation", or the mormon version of Heaven. They baptize EVERYONE, regardless of prior baptisms or lack of same. That includes Jews, Hindus, Scientologists, Hitler and the Popes. And the descendants have no say in the matter.

I never have been able to get anyone to tell me how the LDS church collects tithing from the dead, though. 10% tithing is required of the living in order to partake of the special "ordinances" required for "exaltation".

So they can do it to others and their family has no say in the matter? That takes..... well... guts, shall we say?

What about those poor souls who know one knows existed because birth records were lost or never kept?

What’s the point of even becoming Mormon if one can have it done by proxy?

What’s the point of even becoming Mormon if one can have it done by proxy?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

They want your money. Now!

Well, duh, yeah.

I keep forgetting about that part for some reason.

I should always remember to follow the money trail when I can’t figure out any other reason why people do something.

So they can do it to others and their family has no say in the matter? That takes..... well... guts, shall we say?

Oh, but the DEAD can either accept or reject the rites. That is the rationalization. Some folks, however, see this as complete disrespect of the dead AND the living.

Read this post #656 on how the proxy work affected this poster, and ask if he was thinking of the dead he was representing, or of himself and how the experience affected him. This work is a major "calling" for mormons, works that they believe will lead to their own "exaltation".

From the above linked post, How better can you learn of Jesus than by doing his work of bringing souls unto him? how better to help the Dead by proxy work of earthly ordinances so that, if they choose to accept the gospel the ordinances that have been done for them they can progress. How better to increase your spirituality become closer to God, than to read the scriptures while waiting, and then be instructed of God, by his servants. It truly was a wonderful evening spent with my wife, serving Jesus the way he has asked us to.

I don’t have time to play today, but you guys are killing me. You wouldn’t have lasted 10 minutes in the ancient Church headed up by Peter as the Lord’s appointed “funds gatherer”. They didn’t just live the law of tithing, a mere 10 percent, they lived a FULL 100 PERCENT, all things in common.

Perhaps we should step back and ask ourselves if we want to be like a faithful Barnabus, or rather withhold from the Lord like Ananias and Sapphira. They ended up dead, killed by God because they didn’t give everything to Peter. (Acts 4 and 5)
Why would God do such a thing? Were they not believing Christians? Why is money important to God in the first place? Could it be that obedience and faith is also as important as money to help the work progress as well as the soul progress?

My experience and testimony with tithing has been affirmed many many times over. The Lord truly does open the window of heaven when we have faith in Him. When you come to realize that sacrifice and obedience are closely tied to the blessings of heaven, you just might have a change of heart.

You’ve become so jaded with Mormonism, that you can’t look beyond it to see the gospel principles that are there. I have to laugh every time Romney's wealth, and Mormons in general are accused of being wealthy. How can this possibly be, when they give 10 percent and more toward their Church. How can such a "gullible" people have so much? Why are they so educated, and yet so "foolish"

I also have to laugh when the Church is accused of being so rich... perhaps having a lay ministry really goes along way to making the funds that are collected go toward worthwhile purposes instead of gobbled up in pastor salaries.

Again, it's about giving, sacrifice, and faith. The blessings come, they really do. I'll leave you with this scripture, and then I must run again. Have fun in the sandbox today, I can’t play anymore. Life is too busy... and short.

Malachi 3:8-12

8 ¶ Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts.
12 And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightsome land, saith the LORD of hosts.

OOOOoooooo! Anyone who doesn't buy the LDS story has "darkness in themselves".

Nothing arrogant about that!

Of COURSE not; you, you... Gentile!

It's SCRIPTURAL!!!

--MormonDude(Glad I'M not a devil follower!!)

THE FIRST BOOK OF NEPHI
HIS REIGN AND MINISTRY

CHAPTER 14

An angel tells Nephi of the blessings and cursings to fall upon the Gentiles—There are only two churches: the Church of the Lamb of God and the church of the devil—The saints of God in all nations are persecuted by the great and abominable church—The apostle John shall write concerning the end of the world. Between 600 and 592 B.C.

1 And it shall come to pass, that if the Gentiles shall hearken unto the Lamb of God in that day that he shall manifest himself unto them in word, and also in power, in very deed, unto the taking away of their stumbling blocks—
2 And harden not their hearts against the Lamb of God, they shall be numbered among the seed of thy father; yea, they shall be numbered among the house of Israel; and they shall be a blessed people upon the promised land forever; they shall be no more brought down into captivity; and the house of Israel shall no more be confounded.
3 And that great pit, which hath been digged for them by that great and abominable church, which was founded by the devil and his children, that he might lead away the souls of men down to hell—yea, that great pit which hath been digged for the destruction of men shall be filled by those who digged it, unto their utter destruction, saith the Lamb of God; not the destruction of the soul, save it be the casting of it into that hell which hath no end.
4 For behold, this is according to the captivity of the devil, and also according to the justice of God, upon all those who will work wickedness and abomination before him.
5 And it came to pass that the angel spake unto me, Nephi, saying: Thou hast beheld that if the Gentiles repent it shall be well with them; and thou also knowest concerning the covenants of the Lord unto the house of Israel; and thou also hast heard that whoso repented not must perish.
6 Therefore, woe be unto the Gentiles if it so be that they harden their hearts against the Lamb of God.
7 For the time cometh, saith the Lamb of God, that I will work a great and a marvelous work among the children of men; a work which shall be everlasting, either on the one hand or on the other—either to the convincing of them unto peace and life eternal, or unto the deliverance of them to the hardness of their hearts and the blindness of their minds unto their being brought down into captivity, and also into destruction, both temporally and spiritually, according to the captivity of the devil, of which I have spoken.
8 And it came to pass that when the angel had spoken these words, he said unto me: Rememberest thou the covenants of the Father unto the house of Israel? I said unto him, Yea.
9 And it came to pass that he said unto me: Look, and behold that great and abominable church, which is the mother of abominations, whose founder is the devil.
10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth.
11 And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the whore of all the earth, and she sat upon many waters; and she had dominion over ball the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people.
12 And it came to pass that I beheld the church of the Lamb of God, and its numbers were few, because of the wickedness and abominations of the whore who sat upon many waters; nevertheless, I beheld that the church of the Lamb, who were the saints of God, were also upon ball the face of the earth; and their dominions upon the face of the earth were small, because of the wickedness of the great whore whom I saw.
13 And it came to pass that I beheld that the great mother of abominations did gather together multitudes upon the face of all the earth, among all the nations of the Gentiles, to fight against the Lamb of God.
14 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the power of the Lamb of God, that it descended upon the saints of the church of the Lamb, and upon the covenant people of the Lord, who were scattered upon all the face of the earth; and they were armed with righteousness and with the power of God in great glory.
15 And it came to pass that I beheld that the wrath of God was poured out upon that great and abominable church, insomuch that there were wars and rumors of wars among all the nations and kindreds of the earth.
16 And as there began to be wars and rumors of wars among all the nations which belonged to the mother of abominations, the angel spake unto me, saying: Behold, the wrath of God is upon the mother of harlots; and behold, thou seest all these things—
17 And when the day cometh that the wrath of God is poured out upon the mother of harlots, which is the great and abominable church of all the earth, whose founder is the devil, then, at that day, the work of the Father shall commence, in preparing the way for the fulfilling of his covenants, which he hath made to his people who are of the house of Israel.
18 And it came to pass that the angel spake unto me, saying: Look!
19 And I looked and beheld a man, and he was dressed in a white robe.
20 And the angel said unto me: Behold one of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
21 Behold, he shall see and write the remainder of these things; yea, and also many things which have been.
22 And he shall also write concerning the end of the world.
23 Wherefore, the things which he shall write are just and true; and behold they are written in the book which thou beheld proceeding out of the mouth of the Jew; and at the time they proceeded out of the mouth of the Jew, or, at the time the book proceeded out of the mouth of the Jew, the things which were written were plain and pure, and most precious and easy to the understanding of all men.
24 And behold, the things which this apostle of the Lamb shall write are many things which thou hast seen; and behold, the remainder shalt thou see.
25 But the things which thou shalt see hereafter thou shalt not write; for the Lord God hath ordained the apostle of the Lamb of God that he should write them.
26 And also others who have been, to them hath he shown all things, and they have written them; and they are sealed up to come forth in their purity, according to the truth which is in the Lamb, in the own due time of the Lord, unto the house of Israel.
27 And I, Nephi, heard and bear record, that the name of the apostle of the Lamb was john, according to the word of the angel.
28 And behold, I, Nephi, am forbidden that I should write the remainder of the things which I saw and heard; wherefore the things which I have written sufficeth me; and I have written but a small part of the things which I saw.
29 And I bear record that I saw the things which my father saw, and the angel of the Lord did make them known unto me.
30 And now I make an end of speaking concerning the things which I saw while I was carried away in the spirit; and if all the things which I saw are not written, the things which I have written are true. And thus it is. Amen.

(I’m now getting set for the personal attacks that are sure to come after my three day absence from FR)

No mindreading allowed!

This is a righteous RELIGION forum!

If God had something so important and true to say, why didn’t Jesus just tell us?

Why; He DID tell us!!

It's just that EVIL men removed His precious words from us.

You know those guys: the same ones who get quoted a lot by our thorough LDS apologists.

--MormonDude(Glad that JS listened to the two Personages of Great Light!)

Where are the LDS folks today??

Nothing but you FIP’s in evidence.

Greyfox 39, I am flattered that you would remember my post, and that you would quote it. I also want to thank you for pinging me when you talk about me, I really do appreciate it.

So, off to your post.

So they can do it to others and their family has no say in the matter? That takes..... well... guts, shall we say?

Mormon Doctrine specifically states that the dead choose whether or not to accept, so if we are wrong and have no authority, who cares what we do? If we are right, the dead who did not have the opportunity to receive the saving ordinances in this life now have the choice, besides if we are right, it's a commandment from God.

Oh, but the DEAD can either accept or reject the rites. That is the rationalization. Some folks, however, see this as complete disrespect of the dead AND the living.

I find the attacks on my church offensive, do you guys plan to stop attacking us? (ROTFLLOL)

Read this post #656 on how the proxy work affected this poster, and ask if he was thinking of the dead he was representing, or of himself and how the experience affected him. This work is a major "calling" for Mormons, works that they believe will lead to their own "exaltation".

Thanks for asking, often we are told what we are thinking, it's nice to have someone actually ask.

Lets start with the works thing.

Mormons believe that a) We are saved by Grace, and b) we have been commanded to do all that we can do.

Often this the Book of Mormon is quoted: 2 Ne. 25: 23

23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.

This is said to be a departure from the Bible, even though the footnotes (footnote C) goes directly to James 2:14-26

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

It would be accurate to say that we interpret James 2 differently than "Grace only" churches, but to state that we believe in "Works only" is a gross misrepresentation. This "works only" argument is either from ignorance, or a willingness to misstate our position. We believe that true belief will be followed by actions, actions will increase faith which will be followed by more actions...

As for my intent in going on a temple date with my wife, I go on many dates with my wife. We have a sushi place in Provo that we really like called Asuka, best sushi in town and they have an "all you can eat" is roughly equal to three rolls of sushi. The choice (something Mormons are very big on) to go to the temple is specifically to do the work for the dead. I combined it with a date with my wife because it reminds me of my temple covenants, and my marriage covenants ,its kind of like a mini anniversary party, and brings me and my wife closer together. In short, it's not an either or, it's a check all that apply thing.

To bring your quotation from my post completely into focus, the thread this was from was specifically about Baptists (or a Baptist) supporting Mitt, and became a comparison of Mormons and baptists. Many on the thread seemed to be saying that Mormons were always more offensive than baptists to all other Christians, so I brought up Fred Phelps and this protesting funerals stuff. I was comparing how offensive it is to go to the temple or go protest a funeral.

So, you quoted my post, you brought it up, You said we were offensive, so, I'm gonna ask. In your opinion, which is more disrespectful performing proxy ceremonies with the full intent and belief of helping the dead, quietly and behind closed doors, or Gathering in parking lots and sidewalks with bull horns to denigrate and desecrate families and the dead who died serving their country. Remember that both groups claim to be doing this out of belief, and that Fred Phelps' group are Baptists, and the people inside a building, being quiet are the Mormons, which is more offensive?

Thanks for reminding me, I need to plan this week's date :-).

I don’t have time to play today, but you guys are killing me. You wouldn’t have lasted 10 minutes in the ancient Church headed up by Peter as the Lord’s appointed “funds gatherer”. They didn’t just live the law of tithing, a mere 10 percent, they lived a FULL 100 PERCENT, all things in common.

Welcome to the 21st century where we live in the present and not the past. Last time I checked we thankfully were living in 2007 and not under the taxing authority of 0003. That special tax was also tried here in Orderville in 1870..Also a dismal failure.

If the church would open up the books with a complete and honest accounting and show me how my tithing was spent, I wouldn't be so critical. And yes, I fasted and prayed about it; it was revealed to me that the church is false. That is my testimony.

Bing, What are you talking about? You know the law of tithing is “fire insurance.” You and I will burn up as stubble since we don’t have the proper “testimony.”

D&C 64: 23 Behold, now it is called today until the coming of the Son of Man, and verily it is a day of sacrifice, and a day for the tithing of my people; for he that is tithed shall not be burned at his coming.
24 For after today cometh the burning—this is speaking after the manner of the Lord—for verily I say, tomorrow all the proud and they that do wickedly shall be as stubble; and I will burn them up, for I am the Lord of Hosts; and I will not dspare any that remain in Babylon.

If the church would open up the books with a complete and honest accounting and show me how my tithing was spent, I wouldn't be so critical. And yes, I fasted and prayed about it; it was revealed to me that the church is false. That is my testimony.

The church is audited regularly by both an external auditing agency, and by internal auditors, the information is available here and that includes the training ward financial clerks get.

Are you saying that every check written to every widow, every delivery of food from the Bishops Storehouse must be individually identifiable to you by name of recipient so you can go and count every apple? Get over yourself already.

I have a basic example of rights I give to people. Your right to swing your fist ends at the point of my nose. When your "Rights" as you imagine them to be negatively impact others, you have given yourself far more "Rights" than you should.

Has God revealed everything to you?

Does he need to in order for you to believe?

Again, get over yourself.

Your testimony has the ring of falsehood, and that is all I am going to say about it. Write on, you make us look good by comparison.

“fire insurance?”

Oh s**t, I forgot. Those poor dummies in Topanga Canyon and down in San Diego for certain must have been sinners. One of our board members from San Diego gave us a healthy donation (tithe) last year. The fire missed his place in Rancho Santa Fe by one hundred yards.

I'm not certain, however I believe that our non-profit 501(c)3 will work for tithing as well. Tithing=10%. Let me see now, yep it says Religious and Charitable organizations. I gave them 100% of my income last year. Whew...I'm safe now! I know our non-profit is true.